Russia vs. Ukraine Part 2

[asevans]

Russia is the enemy because you have been told to believe. America needs enemies so the war machine can turn out arms and the fed can loan money and treasuries can continue printing money to pay off the interest for the previous loan.

 

[jamil]

I don't think the accusation of "loving Putin" was given for stating opposition to supporting Ukraine, at least not here on INGO. Rather, it was the gleeful posting links to articles full of support for Putin and Russia, defending the invasion, and so full of ******** that they were laughable. Sources with domain names ending in "pravda.ru" "moscowtimes.com".

No. That's not what I'm talking about. There's been a person or two that at least imply if not outwardly say that not agreeing with the unlimited support of Ukraine means you must support Putin, or that you want US boots on the ground later.

 

[oze]

My time on INGO has been an eye-opener for me. I'm not talking about people who want to discuss both sides of issues on a civil manner, as we have today, but I thought that I would find the "America, wrong no matter what" crowd exclusively on hard left sites, and believe me, they are there. But to find it fairly prevalently on an ostensibly right-leaning site surprised me.

 

[jamil]

Russia is the enemy because you have been told to believe. America needs enemies so the war machine can turn out arms and the fed can loan money and treasuries can continue printing money to pay off the interest for the previous loan.

Make no mistake. Russia is the enemy. They're just not the only enemy.

 

[oze]

I have not posted about any virus and I have mentioned the US funded labs(but so has Germany and India at the UN).
The media narrative was very different when Obama was in for sure, after Russia took over Crimea there were some strongly worded articles and letters,but no call to war. When Trump wanted to help Ukraine get it back it was "he will cause ww3" "he is a power hungry mad man who will get us all killed" ect.
When he backed down they flipped a switch and the media was all "He is pro Putin" ect...

I pay very little attention to the narrative. The history though,that is how you understand what is going on and will likely happen as a result. I posted I believe in this thread the day we eliminated Russian assess to swift that they just killed our reserve currency status(and that children were in charge of DC). Now more countries than ever are trading in local currencies, even Saudi Arabia(the hinge pin of the petro dollar). It will have consequences for the USA, and none of them good. All because we wanted to get involved.

I tried to PM you, but your inbox is full.

 

[jamil]

My time on INGO has been an eye-opener for me. I'm not talking about people who want to discuss both sides of issues on a civil manner, as we have today, but I thought that I would find the "America, wrong no matter what" crowd exclusively on hard left sites, and believe me, they are there. But to find it fairly prevalently on an ostensibly right-leaning site surprised me.

I don't think America is wrong. I'd like to put America first though. Saying we should not give Ukraine unlimited support isn't saying that America is wrong. That said, I think the Biden administration is corrupt and I strongly suspect is pushing unlimited support for self-serving reasons, and does not prioritize America first. I feel like I got suckered into supporting the military actions in Iraq and Afghanistan. Fool me once...

 

[oze]

I have to head out, but I thought I'd leave with my own tinfoil-hat theory. Check out who was holding the White House when the Russkies invaded 1) Georgia, 2) Crimea and 3) Ukraine . Just sayin'.

 

[Ark]

Ukraine Hit by One of Russia’s Biggest Missile Barrages This Year

Russia fired dozens of missiles at Kyiv and other regions across Ukraine overnight, striking civilian infrastructure and the country’s defense industry in one of the biggest barrages this year as its forces continued to claw more territory in the east.

www.wsj.com

Here I thought they were supposed to be running out of missiles by now.

 

[jamil]

Not so much drawing my ire as my laughter. Plenty of stories are linked in this thread and its predecessor with accusations like: America is working with the Ukrainians to engineer an avian-borne virus that targets only Slavs. I don't care who you are, that's some funny **** right there.

I don't want to call you or anyone else out; I just got banned from another forum for just that. But there are people here and elsewhere that appear eager to find fault with the West in general, and America specifically, to the point of defending Putin's 3rd invasion in 14 years. I can understand not willing to provide Ukraine with our tax dollars, but the full-throated support of Russia and Putin is something that baffles me.

I wonder how much of this is political. I wonder if the narrative here would be different if instead of that senile old fool occupying the White House, somebody like, oh, I don't know, Trump was still President.

I have to admit that I haven't really followed this thread much and mostly the extent of my involvement isn't to support this side or that side. It's to challenge the idea of unlimited support.

So I'm not saying there hasn't been "full-throated support" of Russia and Putin here. I've not seen that though. I have seen some people post, along with me, that we shouldn't give Ukraine unlimited support. That we've given enough already. I'm content to leave it to Europeans to handle it. And I've been told that means I'm supporting Putin. Because people apparently don't understand false dichotomies.

That said, the West and the US in particular aren't without fault. We've continually broken promises with Russia and have pushed farther East than we thought we'd go. The world is probably better off with Ukraine left as a fully sovereign nation that stands as a buffer between Russia and the West. NATO membership for Ukraine should never have been on the table.

 

[nra4ever]

 

[smokingman]

 

[BugI02]

But there are people here and elsewhere that appear eager to find fault with the West in general, and America specifically, to the point of defending Putin's 3rd invasion in 14 years. I can understand not willing to provide Ukraine with our tax dollars, but the full-throated support of Russia and Putin is something that baffles me.

'Lebensraum' or 'let Russia be Russia', I'm not sure which fits best

 

[jamil]

Yeah, but no. When you hear the whole thing, the context was clearly a plea to keep the money flowing so that they can stop the Russian expansion before it reaches a NATO country, in which case we would be sending US troops. Of course I’m not lending validation to that idea. But he wasn’t saying that US troops would be coming to Ukraine. It wasn’t a threat. It was clearly a prediction, inaccuracies notwithstanding.

 

[smokingman]

EU Parliament President Demands West Send Fighter Jets to Ukraine

European Parliament President Roberta Metsola called for fighter jets to be sent to Ukraine as she made a surprise visit to the country.

www.breitbart.com

Rubio: Congress Will Support Funding a Ukraine Strategy, But Biden Doesn't Have One and We Won't Fund a Stalemate

On Tuesday's broadcast of the Fox News Channel's "Special Report," Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL) said that there is strong support in Congress "for funding a | Clips

www.breitbart.com

Rubio "This administration still has not defined what our national security interests are and what our end goals are and what we’re doing. And I think that’s really important as we keep coming back to Congress for more money.”

 

[Leadeye]

EU Parliament President Demands West Send Fighter Jets to Ukraine

European Parliament President Roberta Metsola called for fighter jets to be sent to Ukraine as she made a surprise visit to the country.

www.breitbart.com

Rubio: Congress Will Support Funding a Ukraine Strategy, But Biden Doesn't Have One and We Won't Fund a Stalemate

On Tuesday's broadcast of the Fox News Channel's "Special Report," Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL) said that there is strong support in Congress "for funding a | Clips

www.breitbart.com

Rubio "This administration still has not defined what our national security interests are and what our end goals are and what we’re doing. And I think that’s really important as we keep coming back to Congress for more money.”

.

 

[BigRed]

My time on INGO has been an eye-opener for me. I'm not talking about people who want to discuss both sides of issues on a civil manner, as we have today, but I thought that I would find the "America, wrong no matter what" crowd exclusively on hard left sites, and believe me, they are there. But to find it fairly prevalently on an ostensibly right-leaning site surprised me.

I most often end up with "state is wrong". My preference for the left boot or the right boot on my neck seems to have passed a very long time ago.

 

[erasure]

My time on INGO has been an eye-opener for me. I'm not talking about people who want to discuss both sides of issues on a civil manner, as we have today, but I thought that I would find the "America, wrong no matter what" crowd exclusively on hard left sites, and believe me, they are there. But to find it fairly prevalently on an ostensibly right-leaning site surprised me.

You equate the clowns running the show with America? Really?

 

[Hawkeye]

You equate the clowns running the show with America? Really?

Hmmm... I don't think that is what he is saying.

 

[asevans]

This American government does not have the consent of the people. They are stealing elections. Controlling the flow of information and stealing our money.

 

[spencer rifle]

'Lebensraum' or 'let Russia be the Soviet Union', I'm not sure which fits best

Fixy
We did that already, hid under the desk, got the Civil Defense helmet. No like.