Russia vs Ukraine anyone watching this ignite?

[Keith_Indy]

Smart move if true.

Did Ukraine just hit a target inside Russia?

hotair.com

 

[KellyinAvon]

Having worked with WRM (war reserve materiel) three different times in my USAF Supply days, I have to think this provides the sharp contrast between the professional force (particularly in the Enlisted Corps) of the US Military and the corrupt worthless bags of excrement that make up the Rooskie military.

More to follow

OK here's the more. It would be so easy to to sell off WRM parts from a small unit with a lot of vehicles and equipment. At Taegu Air Base, ROK we had 500 vehicles in storage. Order parts against the vehicle that doesn't need the parts, sell the parts. The check and balance in this is like two guys. Don't need the vehicle maintenance guys involved, all I need is a registration number for the vehicle to order the parts against. I order the parts, the warehouse guy processes the parts into the system, sign a name to the paperwork and that's all that's needed.

Never thought about it, since I'm not a criminal and I was too busy tracking parts for the pre-positioned vehicles and equipment at K-2 AB. That's the difference between a professional force and a bunch of corrupt dirt-bags.

 

[Ark]

So bear with me. I know we've supplied the Ukrainians with a significant amount of Javelins and Stingers (not to mention other weapons), and they have relied various other anti-tank and anti-air missiles from various other nations, but this war is really demonstrating to me how obsolete (in a way) tanks, and even attack helicopters, are starting to become. Now I know counter to these types of weapons can be made/invented, and I'm not saying that heavy armor and attack aircraft are going anywhere, but I am saying that war is clearly shifting away from massive waves of armor.

Ukraine, and countries like them (smaller, with less ability spend on their military than the aggressive neighbors they borders with) should invest heavily in anti-tank and anti-air man portable systems, as well as unguided anti-armor weapons like LAWs, RPGs, etc., while also adopting a system similar to Israel and Switzerland and fairly lenient gun laws. Just a thought I wanted to share with everyone because I was definitely impressed with the effectiveness of these systems against armor columns.

Could be. It'll be a hell of a thing if, instead of the predicted death of the infantry due to high tech high lethality modern battlefields, the opposite happens and future conflicts end up fought much more by infantry because the environment is increasingly denied to tanks and low flying support aircraft. If these force multipliers for infantry really do become and stay common, there's just not gonna be any way to dislodge those guys from a city or a mountain system or other area with abundant cover without going in with rifles and getting them.

I guess the deciding factor is going to be their availability. These are still extremely expensive, high tech weapons systems only made by a few companies in a few countries and only bestowed upon their chosen proxies. The Taliban didn't get no Stingers the second time around. It seems unlikely the Javelin will be as common in 20 years as the RPG-7 is today. It just costs too much.

I wonder about the future of the main battle tank. These toys are expensive, but they're cheaper than a tank. If you're a Ukraine or a Poland or a Finland or any other small power that isn't locked up in a globe-spanning military alliance, you have to be asking yourself right now whether the cost of tanks is worth it at all. If Ukraine turned all those missile systems into cash and bought a bunch of M1A1s to fight the Russian tanks straight up, how many would they get and how long would they last?

And we're all looking at what's gonna happen with the suicide drones/loitering munitions we're supplying, which are another category of man-portable goodie.

 

[Redhorse]

Could be. It'll be a hell of a thing if, instead of the predicted death of the infantry due to high tech high lethality modern battlefields, the opposite happens and future conflicts end up fought much more by infantry because the environment is increasingly denied to tanks and low flying support aircraft. If these force multipliers for infantry really do become and stay common, there's just not gonna be any way to dislodge those guys from a city or a mountain system or other area with abundant cover without going in with rifles and getting them.

I guess the deciding factor is going to be their availability. These are still extremely expensive, high tech weapons systems only made by a few companies in a few countries and only bestowed upon their chosen proxies. The Taliban didn't get no Stingers the second time around. It seems unlikely the Javelin will be as common in 20 years as the RPG-7 is today. It just costs too much.

I wonder about the future of the main battle tank. These toys are expensive, but they're cheaper than a tank. If you're a Ukraine or a Poland or a Finland or any other small power that isn't locked up in a globe-spanning military alliance, you have to be asking yourself right now whether the cost of tanks is worth it at all. If Ukraine turned all those missile systems into cash and bought a bunch of M1A1s to fight the Russian tanks straight up, how many would they get and how long would they last?

And we're all looking at what's gonna happen with the suicide drones/loitering munitions we're supplying, which are another category of man-portable goodie.

I had the same line of thinking. The only difference is, while these missiles are expensive to produce, they're much cheaper than tanks, helicopters, and fighter jets like you said. If these countries are trying to simply keep invaders out, having one of these behind every bush making every a one person tank and helicopter killer would more than likely do the trick. Ukraine would be smart to reverse engineer these missiles or try and produce them under a license. Regardless of how it pans out, it'd be cheaper than producing tanks that have already proven to be vulnerable to guerrilla warfare type tactics. Sure some armor is needed but having droves of them seems questionable to say the least.

 

[smokingman]

The Kremlin said on Wednesday that demanding ruble payments for exports of oil, grain, fertilizers, coal, metals and other key commodities in addition to natural gas was a good idea, Russia's top lawmaker Vyacheslav Volodin said on Wednesday, per Reuters.

"If you want gas, find rubles," Volodin, the speaker of the lower house of parliament, said in a post on Telegram.

Peskov, meanwhile, said the dollar's global reserve currency was already diminishing, and that pricing Russia's biggest exports in rubles would be "in our interests and the interests of our partners."

Germany to their citizens wear a sweater. Of course a sweater will not keep the power on or cook your food,but politicians seem to be the same the world over at this point.

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

Baden-Württemberg Minister of Agriculture and Consumer Protection Peter Hauk made the comments as he called for a complete ban on German imports of Russian gas and oil as a result of the war in Ukraine.

Before the war began, Germany imported 55 per cent of its gas from Russia along with a third of its oil and 45 per cent of its coal.

With Germans already struggling to heat their homes, Hauk glibly told them to wear more clothing instead.
The German Tenants’ Association responded strongly to the comments, asserting that elderly people are at risk of death if they don’t keep their homes sufficiently warm.

“With a ministerial salary or a presidential pension, you can afford exploding energy costs and do not need to freeze yourself,” Stuttgart state chairman Rolf Gassmann said.

“You can withstand 15 degrees [Celsius] in winter in a sweater. No one dies of it. But people are

dying elsewhere,”

 

[Keith_Indy]

I wonder about the future of the main battle tank. These toys are expensive, but they're cheaper than a tank. If you're a Ukraine or a Poland or a Finland or any other small power that isn't locked up in a globe-spanning military alliance, you have to be asking yourself right now whether the cost of tanks is worth it at all. If Ukraine turned all those missile systems into cash and bought a bunch of M1A1s to fight the Russian tanks straight up, how many would they get and how long would they last?

Related:

https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2022/03/28/the_marines_got_rid_of_their_tanks_is_ukraine_making_them_look_smart_or_too_smart_for_their_own_good_823985.html

 

[Ark]

The Kremlin said on Wednesday that demanding ruble payments for exports of oil, grain, fertilizers, coal, metals and other key commodities in addition to natural gas was a good idea, Russia's top lawmaker Vyacheslav Volodin said on Wednesday, per Reuters.


Peskov, meanwhile, said the dollar's global reserve currency was already diminishing, and that pricing Russia's biggest exports in rubles would be "in our interests and the interests of our partners."

Germany to their citizens wear a sweater. Of course a sweater will not keep the power on or cook your food,but politicians seem to be the same the world over at this point.

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

Baden-Württemberg Minister of Agriculture and Consumer Protection Peter Hauk made the comments as he called for a complete ban on German imports of Russian gas and oil as a result of the war in Ukraine.

Before the war began, Germany imported 55 per cent of its gas from Russia along with a third of its oil and 45 per cent of its coal.

With Germans already struggling to heat their homes, Hauk glibly told them to wear more clothing instead.
The German Tenants’ Association responded strongly to the comments, asserting that elderly people are at risk of death if they don’t keep their homes sufficiently warm.

Oh boy looks like closing all those nuke plants maybe wasn't such a good idea.

 

[KG1]

Oh boy looks like closing all those nuke plants maybe wasn't such a good idea.

Hmmm...Seems to me I remember someone warning Germany not to be too dependent on Russian energy sources. If I recall correctly, it was someone by the name starting in Tr and ending in ump.

 

[DadSmith]

Could be. It'll be a hell of a thing if, instead of the predicted death of the infantry due to high tech high lethality modern battlefields, the opposite happens and future conflicts end up fought much more by infantry because the environment is increasingly denied to tanks and low flying support aircraft. If these force multipliers for infantry really do become and stay common, there's just not gonna be any way to dislodge those guys from a city or a mountain system or other area with abundant cover without going in with rifles and getting them.

I guess the deciding factor is going to be their availability. These are still extremely expensive, high tech weapons systems only made by a few companies in a few countries and only bestowed upon their chosen proxies. The Taliban didn't get no Stingers the second time around. It seems unlikely the Javelin will be as common in 20 years as the RPG-7 is today. It just costs too much.

I wonder about the future of the main battle tank. These toys are expensive, but they're cheaper than a tank. If you're a Ukraine or a Poland or a Finland or any other small power that isn't locked up in a globe-spanning military alliance, you have to be asking yourself right now whether the cost of tanks is worth it at all. If Ukraine turned all those missile systems into cash and bought a bunch of M1A1s to fight the Russian tanks straight up, how many would they get and how long would they last?

And we're all looking at what's gonna happen with the suicide drones/loitering munitions we're supplying, which are another category of man-portable goodie.

My son got out of the Army a few years ago. He was a 19D Cav Scout.
I ask him about anti tank missiles and tanks being venerable. He said they were working on missile defense for the m1a2.
It shot chaff up in the air and detenated the missiles well away from the turret or sides. There was another defense system for another type missile which I forgot how he said it worked.
Maybe someone has more information on these defense systems, and if they are now implemented or still testing.

Edit:
I found this article.

Army tanks are officially rocking a new active protection system in Europe

Photos released on July 10 ahead of the second phase of the Army's Defense Europe exercise show an M1 Abrams main battle tank rocking an Israeli-made Trophy Active Protection System (APS)

taskandpurpose.com

 

[printcraft]

Hmmm...Seems to me I remember someone warning Germany not to be too dependent on Russian energy sources. If I recall correctly, it was someone by the name starting in Tr and ending in ump.

Yes, and they laughed at the time.
Sucks to be them.

 

[rob63]

Oh boy looks like closing all those nuke plants maybe wasn't such a good idea.

The sad thing is that I have been watching the European coverage of the Ukraine war and it has become evident to me that the remainder of Europe is carrying on with their plans of abandoning nuclear power in the name of climate change. I don't get it.

 

[Leadeye]

The sad thing is that I have been watching the European coverage of the Ukraine war and it has become evident to me that the remainder of Europe is carrying on with their plans of abandoning nuclear power in the name of climate change. I don't get it.

When more Europeans go through winter cold and hungry maybe they will change their leadership and quit paying attention to an angry urchin.

 

[smokingman]

When more Europeans go through winter cold and hungry maybe they will change their leadership and quit paying attention to an angry urchin.

German PPI is already over 100% yoy(was over 78% before the invasion). They think 7% inflation is bad wait until they see triple digits (again). I have a feeling most Germans will very soon want out of the EU. Great Britain is after all in much better shape inflation wise than most of the EU,thus far only about 2% better. They will likely survive much more easily given the EU central bank just stated they where not increasing interest rates to combat inflation until summer,and Britain already has increase rates and plans on doing more.

 

[BugI02]

Yes, and they laughed at the time.
Sucks to be them.

Unfortunately, the idiots who made such decisions seldom have to live with their own folly

Somehow I think Merkel will be perfectly toasty, it is only ever the little people who pay the price for the grand ideas of politicians

 

[BugI02]

The sad thing is that I have been watching the European coverage of the Ukraine war and it has become evident to me that the remainder of Europe is carrying on with their plans of abandoning nuclear power in the name of climate change. I don't get it.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary [personal fortune] depends upon his not understanding it"

 

[BigMoose]

My son got out of the Army a few years ago. He was a 19D Cav Scout.
I ask him about anti tank missiles and tanks being venerable. He said they were working on missile defense for the m1a2.
It shot chaff up in the air and detenated the missiles well away from the turret or sides. There was another defense system for another type missile which I forgot how he said it worked.
Maybe someone has more information on these defense systems, and if they are now implemented or still testing.

Edit:
I found this article.

Army tanks are officially rocking a new active protection system in Europe

Photos released on July 10 ahead of the second phase of the Army's Defense Europe exercise show an M1 Abrams main battle tank rocking an Israeli-made Trophy Active Protection System (APS)

taskandpurpose.com

Ironically, that stuff was what that one off prototype the Ruskies lost in combat was made to test.

Of course whatever it had didn't work, well if it was even functional before they sent it to Ukraine.

 

[BigMoose]

Honestly. I see a future were drones do most of the combat..

I forsee a future that is the end of humans being inside anything that is a combat vehicle.

 

[BigMoose]

That or its just the fact that Farmers with tractors are the most powerful military force known to man.

 

[Sylvain]

The sad thing is that I have been watching the European coverage of the Ukraine war and it has become evident to me that the remainder of Europe is carrying on with their plans of abandoning nuclear power in the name of climate change. I don't get it.

Germany wants to get rid of their nuclear power plants, it's not Europe.
In France over 77% of our electricity comes from nuclear power plants (only 19% in the US).
It's considered a green energy by some since it doesn't produce carbon dioxide.
Our current president (and some presidential candidates) want to build more/newer nuclear power plants.

The remaining electricity is produced by windmills and solar panels (about 20% of the electricity produced).

We don't need Russian gas or coal to produce electricity, unlike most of Europe.

 

[BigMoose]

Germany sending more stuff to Ukraine.

Achtung! Panzerfaust!