Russia vs Ukraine anyone watching this ignite?

[KG1]

I was told the peace talks between Russia and Ukraine broke down. No confirmation yet. I don't doubt it since Ukraine president said Russia had to pull all troops out of Ukraine for a peace deal.

Putin's public persona he has generated won't allow for anything other than a perceived victory.

 

[22LRFan]

The bully Putin has been fully exposed at this point. He will need one hell of a off ramp for him to take it. Its all about saving face for this P.O.S now.

 

[jamil]

From 2014...from the comment section......"although this was horrific it was also preformed under the governance of pro russia ukraine president Viktor Yanukovych who in the same year was kicked out and fled to russia. yanukovych also was brutal to his own people, the ukraine civil war occurred as Yanukovych sent his riot police with specific orders of violence using metal batons and started attacking young students as they were protesting against Yanukovych and his decision to keep ukraine out of the eu and stuck in "soviet union environment", the conflict continued as riot police were ordered further violence with predujice and then the march of millions and further violence. aka under yanukovychs rule there were many human rights violations and corruptivity was at an all time high for the ukraine government. funny enough he was pro russian, pro soviet and also was a puppet for russia." Are we going to play a video of the KKK next and say what they did represents all of the USA and its people. Sadly there is madness in many countries.

If we’re looking for individual heroes to support or individual villains to condemn, we’ll probably find each on both sides. Which side do I support? I don’t really want to support eith the Ukrainians or Russians other than that I support Ukraine’s right to sovereignty. And right now Russia seems to be violating that right. That doesn’t mean I have to condone Ukraine’s behavior to supposrt their right to sovereignty.

 

[jamil]

Nice people we're supporting...

Be warned this is exceedingly graphic.

All I know about that video is what the description says it is. If it’s real, of course that is what I would call a war crime regardless which side they’re on.

 

[Cameramonkey]

If we’re looking for individual heroes to support or individual villains to condemn, we’ll probably find each on both sides. Which side do I support? I don’t really want to support eith the Ukrainians or Russians other than that I support Ukraine’s right to sovereignty. And right now Russia seems to be violating that right. That doesn’t mean I have to condone Ukraine’s behavior to supposrt their right to sovereignty.

THIS.

This is nothing but cancel culture trying to vilify "the good guys" for the actions of a few. We're better than that.

 

[smokingman]

I was told the peace talks between Russia and Ukraine broke down. No confirmation yet. I don't doubt it since Ukraine president said Russia had to pull all troops out of Ukraine for a peace deal.

Russian troops must leave Crimea, Donbass: Top Ukrainian official

At peace talks with Russia on the Belarusian border, a member of the Ukrainian delegation demanded the withdrawal of all Russian troops from Ukrainian...

www.dailysabah.com

Zelenskiy is only asking for Crimea,Donbass,and all Russian's to leave.

If he wanted peace I am pretty sure he would not be asking for Crimea. Donbass has been independent since 2014(something Ukraine agreed with then, along with the UN). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements#Minsk_Protocol

In other words he is asking the impossible.

 

[DadSmith]

Russian troops must leave Crimea, Donbass: Top Ukrainian official

At peace talks with Russia on the Belarusian border, a member of the Ukrainian delegation demanded the withdrawal of all Russian troops from Ukrainian...

www.dailysabah.com

Zelenskiy is only asking for Crimea,Donbass,and all Russian's to leave.

If he wanted peace I am pretty sure he would not be asking for Crimea. Donbass has been independent since 2014(something Ukraine agreed with then, along with the UN). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements#Minsk_Protocol

In other words he is asking the impossible.

That means he is winning so far and isn't going to give an inch. I imagine Russian casualties are much higher than reported and prisoners.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Russian troops must leave Crimea, Donbass: Top Ukrainian official

At peace talks with Russia on the Belarusian border, a member of the Ukrainian delegation demanded the withdrawal of all Russian troops from Ukrainian...

www.dailysabah.com

Zelenskiy is only asking for Crimea,Donbass,and all Russian's to leave.

If he wanted peace I am pretty sure he would not be asking for Crimea. Donbass has been independent since 2014(something Ukraine agreed with then, along with the UN). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements#Minsk_Protocol

In other words he is asking the impossible.

Where do you get that Zelenskiy is asking that? From the article.
"Later, in comments to Ukrainian media outlets, Arestovich clarified that the demands were his personal opinion and not the official position of Ukraine."

 

[smokingman]

Where do you get that Zelenskiy is asking that? From the article.
"Later, in comments to Ukrainian media outlets, Arestovich clarified that the demands were his personal opinion and not the official position of Ukraine."

"At peace talks with Russia on the Belarusian border, a member of the Ukrainian delegation demanded the withdrawal of all Russian troops from Ukrainian territories, including Crimea and Donbass, the deputy head of Ukraine’s presidential office Oleksii Arestovich said Monday."

When the lead "negotiator" is demanding it does it matter if he later(after ending negotiations)clarified it to the media?

 

[BugI02]

I wonder if we could provide aid with an AWACS without running afoul of anything?

Probably JSTARS and Rivet Joint would be more useful unless we want to get directly involved in air to air

[c'mon, Kelly; school the kids]

 

[KG1]

Where do you get that Zelenskiy is asking that? From the article.
"Later, in comments to Ukrainian media outlets, Arestovich clarified that the demands were his personal opinion and not the official position of Ukraine."

As a Ukrainian representative he should not be making demands based on his personal opinions. He is supposed to be the official representative that speaks for Zelensky.

 

[BugI02]

Nightshift is on...

.... actually been watching from the shadows for a while already.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

"At peace talks with Russia on the Belarusian border, a member of the Ukrainian delegation demanded the withdrawal of all Russian troops from Ukrainian territories, including Crimea and Donbass, the deputy head of Ukraine’s presidential office Oleksii Arestovich said Monday."

When the lead "negotiator" is demanding it does it matter if he later(after ending negotiations)clarified it to the media?

Where does it say he's the lead negotiator? It says he's the deputy head of the presidential office.
Also where does it say that the negotiations ended?

As a Ukrainian representative he should not be making demands based on his personal opinions. He is supposed to be the official representative that speaks for Zelensky.

I can agree with that.

 

[Keith_Indy]

All I know about that video is what the description says it is. If it’s real, of course that is what I would call a war crime regardless which side they’re on.

According to comments there, the video is from 8 years ago.

Release now is pro-Russian propaganda... trying smear the whole country as neo-nazi.

Now, that's not saying the people who do this sort of stuff shouldn't be hunted and prosecuted.

We worked with the Soviets and the Italian mafia in WW II...

 

[DadSmith]

Ukraine calls for no-fly zone to stop Russian bombardment

President Volodymyr Zelenskiy urged the West to consider a no-fly zone for Russian aircraft over Ukraine on Monday after Moscow bombarded the country's second largest city, drawing new sanctions by the United States and its allies.

www.reuters.com

 

[smokingman]

Where does it say he's the lead negotiator? It says he's the deputy head of the presidential office.
Also where does it say that the negotiations ended?

I can agree with that.

deputy head of Ukraine’s presidential office Oleksii Arestovich...he also happens to be the acting prime minister of Ukraine,though he has yet to be voted on by the Verkhovna Rada.

My bad. He was Zelenskiy choice for prime minister. The current acting prime minister is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denys_Shmyhal

Arestovich does seem to have been the highest ranked member of the Ukrainian team though. The others I have looked at do not even seem to hold public office. I have only found 3 names actually listed.

 

[BugI02]

What a great time for Biden to cancel all new oil and gas leases.

$5 gas by June? $6?

The plan has always been to make energy more expensive so that people of ordinary means have to use less of it (those married to heirs of the Heinz fortune and such are likely somewhat better 'insulated' from price hikes)

It has also been in their catechism that a crisis should not be allowed to 'go to waste'. I would not look for 0Biden to reverse course in any way or try to restart stalled/paused conventional energy projects

 

[DragonGunner]

If we’re looking for individual heroes to support or individual villains to condemn, we’ll probably find each on both sides. Which side do I support? I don’t really want to support eith the Ukrainians or Russians other than that I support Ukraine’s right to sovereignty. And right now Russia seems to be violating that right. That doesn’t mean I have to condone Ukraine’s behavior to supposrt their right to sovereignty.

You really think "it seems to be....?" I was past that as soon as they invaded on day one. A person said it appears to them that one side of Ukraine lean towards the "nazi" side and been doing harm to the other side of Ukraine that leans towards Russia. I can see that point, however that makes it a Ukraine problem and they have to deal with that. We have idiots on both sides in this county and we don't see another country invading us to change us......well.......maybe we do with Mexico...? What I wonder is if the vast majority of Ukraine people just want peace.....just like the Russian people just want peace.....but then we all have ugly politics and hate that seem to get leadership and screw the people. Sad.

 

[HoughMade]

"At peace talks with Russia on the Belarusian border, a member of the Ukrainian delegation demanded the withdrawal of all Russian troops from Ukrainian territories, including Crimea and Donbass, the deputy head of Ukraine’s presidential office Oleksii Arestovich said Monday."

When the lead "negotiator" is demanding it does it matter if he later(after ending negotiations)clarified it to the media?

So withdrawal of Russian troops is the same as "Ukraine wants the territories"?

 

[BugI02]

So withdrawal of Russian troops is the same as "Ukraine wants the territories"?

THIS^^^

If you are negotiating a cease fire, any easy requirement is the return to pre-combat boundaries. That has well defined conditions and does not require dealing immediately with the thornier questions of overarching issues or recognize temporary battlefield gains

That said, if Ukraine is demanding the Russians return Crimea, they will be disappointed. Hopefully it is only a gambit and not an actual negotiating position. Zelenskyy may have a much more open commitment for lethal military aid now, but it is still his people that will do the dying if this drags on