Rule Number One: All Guns are always loaded

[JettaKnight]

Gunny and TEAM GLOCK rockin' the 4 rules.

You seem to be on this kick whereby you want to be associated with the cool kids. I will continue to promote a better set of rules over tradition, legendary status and coolness.



And by associating Glock with the Four Rules, you've probably driven more away from the Four Rules.

 

[ATM]

But as we've read in this thread it doesn't. Go back and count the posts where INGO'ers say, "all guns are always loaded; so I check and unload it myself, then I do what I want because it's safe at that point."

That, right there, is Beard Logic.

Indeed. Treat all guns as if they were loaded until... I verify it is unloaded is all to common.

So after the magical until, once they really really believe it is unloaded, how do they tend to treat them?

Differently.

FAIL.

 

[crispy]

Gunny and TEAM GLOCK rockin' the 4 rules.


[video=youtube;KTuYS857lOE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTuYS857lOE[/video]

Did you even watch the video you posted? I suggest you watch and see how they've modified Mr. Coopers Rule #1.

 

[SubicWarrior1988]

Hickock 45? Yup, 4 rules for him as well.

[video=youtube;kQrlDUIZ3f0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQrlDUIZ3f0[/video]

 

[crispy]

Are you noticing a trend? Everyone modifies rule #1 to make it make sense...

You've quoted several variations of the rule, and all are attributed to him. Which is problematic.

Why don't you post here what you believe Rule #1 to be (in its entirety).

 

[ATM]

Hickock 45? Yup, 4 rules for him as well.

Imagine all the examples of those who practiced and promoted cigarette smoking back when it was deemed more sophisticated and trendy than hazardous.

Seems nearly comical a generation or two later, right?

Nobody is suggesting that the silly notion is not prolifically distributed, simply that it is bunk.

 

[SubicWarrior1988]

Alien Gear Holsters? 4 rules, yup.

[video=youtube;UDJRP6eOBtI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDJRP6eOBtI[/video]

 

[crispy]

I don't think the videos are making the point that you want them to make...

 

[JettaKnight]

I don't think the videos are making the point that you want them to make...

IKR? I watched that slick Glock video with with the eye candy right up till Hunky McGlock stuck his pinky in the chamber and pronounced the gun as 'safe', thereby completely contradicting his previous command to treat all guns as if they are loaded.

FAIL.

 

[JettaKnight]

Alien Gear Holsters? 4 rules, yup.

Did they really include a clip for Key & Peele?

Also, I noted "as if" inserted into Rule #1. His explanation was far better than Hunky McGlock.

 

[308jake]

This thread makes me want to pistol whip myself into a coma.

 

[crispy]

I've done some research. The closest thing I can find to being the gold standard for the rules is the book The Modern Technique of the Pistol written by Gregory B. Morrison with Jeff Cooper as Contributor.

Here's what the book says:

RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
There are no exceptions. Do not pretend that this is true. Some people and organizations take this rule and weaken it;e.g. "Treat all guns as if they were loaded." Unfortunately, the "as if" compromises the directness of the statement by implying that they are unloaded, but we will treat them as though they are loaded. No good! Safety rules must be worded forcefully so that they are never treated lightly or reduced to partial compliance.
All guns are always loaded - period!
This must be your mind-set. If someone hands you a firearm and says, "Don't worry, it's not loaded," you do not dare believe him. You need not be impolite, but check it yourself. Remember, there are no accidents, only negligent acts. Check it. Do not let yourself fall prey to a situation where you might feel compelled to squeal, "I didn't know it was loaded!"

 

[JettaKnight]

Hickock 45? Yup, 4 rules for him as well.

Also noted the modified Rule #1.

I take issue with his comment, "If I don't pull the trigger, that gun won't fire." Did Kirk ever tell you about his 870 at Shootrite? Or my 700 at Roush Lake?


And that video was ay too long.

 

[OutdoorDad]

Are you noticing a trend? Everyone modifies rule #1 to make it make sense...

You've quoted several variations of the rule, and all are attributed to him. Which is problematic.

Why don't you post here what you believe Rule #1 to be (in its entirety).

only in TV westerns are all guns always loaded. And even then, there may be a good guy/bad guy qualifier.

What I think the first rule should be:

You are morally responsible for your firearm.
Ensure it can function as designed.
Always be certain of its condition and ability to function as a deadly weapon.

 

[JettaKnight]

This thread makes me want to pistol whip myself into a coma.

INGO charter demands a Four Rule melee once a quarter.

 

[cbhausen]

The thread than keeps on giving... Great reading BTW.

The more I think critically about this debate, the less I think of Col. Cooper's Rule #1. It's simply not a rule at all and leaves one wondering what purpose it serves. Certainly this "rule" cannot be "followed" or "broken" because it is entirely non-instructive. That pretty much renders it invalid in my book. Now, if one wants to talk about Rule#1 in terms of philosophy or mindset that works.

As instructors and RSO's we can, through observation, verify our students are following tangible instructions in Rules 2, 3, and 4. But how should one of our students reconcile his or her following my instructions to make their weapon safe and clear only to have not actually unloaded it?

This is simply silliness to a logical, thinking human being.

 

[ATM]

I've done some research. The closest thing I can find to being the gold standard for the rules is the book The Modern Technique of the Pistol written by Gregory B. Morrison with Jeff Cooper as Contributor.

Here's what the book says:

RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
There are no exceptions. Do not pretend that this is true. Some people and organizations take this rule and weaken it;e.g. "Treat all guns as if they were loaded." Unfortunately, the "as if" compromises the directness of the statement by implying that they are unloaded, but we will treat them as though they are loaded. No good! Safety rules must be worded forcefully so that they are never treated lightly or reduced to partial compliance.
All guns are always loaded - period!
This must be your mind-set. If someone hands you a firearm and says, "Don't worry, it's not loaded," you do not dare believe him. You need not be impolite, but check it yourself. Remember, there are no accidents, only negligent acts. Check it. Do not let yourself fall prey to a situation where you might feel compelled to squeal, "I didn't know it was loaded!"

Yeah, the problem is not that people trust others who tell them it's unloaded, it's that once they unload or verify for themselves, it is logically impossible to still believe it is loaded.

Is there anyone here willing to admit that they are the person who can't keep an unloaded gun pointed in a safe direction?

Anyone here willing to admit that if they think a gun is unloaded they are somehow compelled to coonfinger the trigger?

What problem does this absurd notion truly address and correct?

 

[308jake]

INGO charter demands a Four Rule melee once a quarter.

It seems that weekly has become the norm.

 

[SubicWarrior1988]

Here is an excellent presentation of the four rules from Front Sight Firearms Training Institute.

[video=youtube;C8S4WN82WO4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8S4WN82WO4[/video]

 

[ATM]

It seems that weekly has become the norm.

I had to take a week off so the pent up tension needed to be released.

I'll pistol whip you into a coma next time we get together if you think it will help ...with an inert training pistol, of course.