Rifle Cleaning Question???

[Icarry2]

Sorry for the long post..

First I haven't paid much attention to INGO or the VIGO MSG for a while, Sorry folks. I have been very busy with a new business venture of my own that I can't discuss on this forum, some dabbling in writing and I hurt my hand working on my Fiance's new dance and fitness studio air conditioner.

Word to the wise... Lets say that if you don't train with both hands and try to keep yourself functioning with your weak side is going to be a challenge. Thankfully I have practiced on and off for many many years being ambidextrous and am doing ok during the reabilitation portion of things. Oh and I don't have a left hand holter for my preferred EDC weapon.

And sorry to say the final straw was that Longbow's Third Season isn't continuing. Keep it up Longbow, I think your very talented and I will buy a copy if it's printed..

So I haven't really had time to check on things here but working on a my go to 7.62x51/.308 Win long rifle I have hit a situation that I wanted to get some suggestions for.

Situation, I bought a used rifle, and nothing against it's former owners but DANG... Do people clean their bores shiny clean or always leave buildup?

Now my question. How the heck do you get the black buildup that's pressed up next to both sides of the lands out?

Back ground,when I bought the rifle I glanced at the bore and breech and looked through the barrel, I'm not an idiot. Yeah it looked dirty but then I have bought dirty firearms before, a little elbow grease and they clean up but this rifle is kicking my butt.

I have been trying to clean this thing since I got it. I cleaned it first, shot a few rounds sighting in a scope, worked through some issues and got some time on a great 200 yard guarded mound range in Missouri, they got their crap together down there, but that's another story. Anyway for the whole time even while dirtying up the barrel myself I have been trying to shine the bore as I call it.

Anyway, I can not get the thing clean to my standards. Maybe I am too picky but a clean weapon is a more reliable weapon from what I have been taught and learned.

For those who state the thread is worthless without pictures.. Picture posts to follow.

I have tried a couple of different methods of cleaning and at the risk of some criticism regarding my methods I will continue and I follow the thinking that opinions are like...

Generally I will rough the bore with a dry brass brush. Then wet patch jag Hoppe's No. 9 it until it is clean and then dry patch it until it is dry and then oil patch it until then dry patch it.

If I am storing a weapon I do a different process. I plug the breach with a foam ear plug and don't dry patch after the oil. I know oil collects at the plug but to me it is safer for storing a bore dry. It cleans up easy, run a dry patch from the muzzle when you push the plug out, it will soak up any oil and then wipe the bore down on the way out. Then run a clean patch from the breech end pulled off at the muzzel and then the rod extracted.

Results, If I run a brush through it, I get that puff of dust, then a wet patch and it's nice and black, another wet patch and it's cleaner and usually by the third it's straight clean. Then go on as usual. But then I look at the bore from the muzzle and I finally got the copper out (the patches stopped turning blue), I can see the crap in the barrel but it won;t come off.

I looked at the muzzle with a magnifier and then used a small screw driver to scrape the black marks. I know bad for the barrel but I have put about 400 patches down this barrel and it's not clean, I do 10 brush strokes, wet patch, and repeat and it won't clean up. Anyway the black marks scrapped out.

This sucks.. I need help.

How do I get this out easy? Never seen one this bad.

Oh I am now trying Hoppe's copper solvent, the amonia infused crap and it stinks.

I have some foaming gel but am curious if it will help.

Let me know your real world honest opinions as for recomendations no BS please. It might help other members, more then just me..

 

[Icarry2]

Dirty barrel shot.. See the black crap along the sides of the lands?

 

[Icarry2]

Clean end of the muzzle once I scrapped the crap off with a screw driver..

 

[IndyGunworks]

To much to type out, i would be happy to have a phone conversation about it though.

my only comment is DO NOT use a screw driver on or near the crown, it will negatively effect accuracy.

 

[hammer24]

Run a really wet patch of Kroil and let it sit for a while. The longer the better. Brush vigorously and watch the crap fly out! WARNING! Do not let the Kroil get on or near any screws that you don't want to work loose!

 

[Icarry2]

@Indygun, Oh I know, I just tried a little bit oh and the scew driver is a very soft tipped one and I was very carefull not to scratch it up.

@hammer24, I might have to try that, I think I am out of Kroil but I know where to get more..

Thanks

 

[sloughfoot]

A screwdriver? A screwdriver? Arrggghhh.

If a clean shiny bore is your goal, then use JB non-imbedding bore paste with a tight patch. Scrub the heck out of it. Great stuff. It will get EVERYTHING out and will not harm anything.

You got me thinking, I think next year is the year that I clean the bore of my 308 Palma gun. I only do it in even years. The cleanliness of the bore is not important. It is more important that the bore is the same from cold shot to the 22nd shot.

I clean and grease the recoil lugs a lot more frequently.

 

[223 Gunner]

For starters I use either Shooter's Choice or Butchs Bore Shine.
Both are outstanding products. I have cleaned a bore with hoppes until I am getting white patches, then gone back with shooter's choice and they come out dirty again.
I have had the un-pleasent task of cleaning bores in old military rifles, the best trick I have found is to go to the range, fire some rounds, get the bore warm, then start cleaning, right there at your bench.
On a really bad bore in an old enfield rifle, I used a worn brush, chucked the cleaning rod into my cordless drill, and on a slow speed ran it through the bore, I would only recommend this on an extremely pitted and dark bore.
In your case I would go to the range, get it warm and then clean, I think you will get it out.

 

[hunter_47443]

You might try this....scroll down a little to this section.
A Current and Voltage Limited Homemade Electronic Copper Fouling Remover

Homemade Firearm Related Products

 

[acelungger]

I would have to go with what Hammer 24 told you to do!the only thing I might do diff is go a hardware store and buy some corks, take a case with you and try and find one that is a little bigger that the dia. of the neck, and then the same on the case. Cut the small cork just a little shorter than the neck lenght, push that in to the neck of the chamber and then the cork for the case, I hope that both of them were hard to install, stand your rifle up and pour a little Kriol down the barrel and let it set for a hour or 2, then look at the camber, if there are no signs of leakage, find a place where you can stand your rifle up with there being any chance that it can tip over or get bumbed, fill that baby to the top with Kriol and let it set over night, then pour the kriol back in the can, and then brusk the heck out of it. Once you get it clean and dry take a new patch and put JB Bore Butter and put a light coat of it in the barrel. After a couple hours run some dry patches threw it. And you are ready to go. Long before there were Bore snakes I made my own and still do, I shoot a Ruger #1B 243 win for 20 years and never run a brush threw it and I would average 4-500 rounds a year.
Just my 2 cents!
Greg

 

[Icarry2]

I know I know, A screwdriver in a muzzle is a mortal sin.. I just touched the grooves a little, trust me, know how a good rifle can be made bad.. Learned the hard way already, it was just a slight scrapping to see if the crap would come off. You can see in the picture that nothing was damaged, Q-tip test still ok..

I don't understand the comment about not putting a brush down a rifle for years.. Sorry I can't see that ever happening for me. Only time I do stuff like that is fouled weapon testing where you purposly don't clean a weapon system and record all of the results and such to see when you get your first jam or misfire. I do it with all my autos. FOr instance my Ruger SR9c can shoot common ammo to about 400 rounds before it starts to have feed problems or stove pipes..

Thanks for the suggestions, I will try Koil first then move through the other suggestions until I get the results I want.

 

[acelungger]

I should of said more about the brush thing but my post was long! There never was a need to use a brush, a person has to believe what they want, but I allways found that after I brushed a barrel it wouldn't be shootin where it was before the brush, the Old timers allways said never use a brush on your rifle unless it was absolutely needed!
No matter if I got a new rifle or a used rifle I would clean it, and would take it to the range and shot it, came home took one of my homemade snakes soaked with Hopes copper cleaner, ran it threw several times, then I would use another snake soaked with mouse milk and ran it threw enough times and then ran patches threw untill a clean patch would come out clean, and then a light coat of bore butter in the barrel.
A well prepped barrel and the right cleaning process, done right when a person gets home from, what ever, target shooting , hunting, ect.

I was just trying to share my 45 years of shooting and the my process, I don't think that anyone does the same as the next guy, and for you, you might need to brush everytime, if you feel the need. and ect.
Just my 2 cents!
Greg

 

[Icarry2]

Sorry Ace, I didn't pay attention, you said you used bore snakes, I wasn't thinking right, I thought you ment you did nothing to clean your barrels, my mistake, sorry. I actually haven't perscribed to the bore snake method yet, maybe because of old habits but I need to try it I guess.

As for finding Kroil I have went to Autozone and O'Reilys and Menards today and none had Kroil, time to do some google fu to find who carries it in town.

Thanks for the info folks, greatly appreciated.

 

[acelungger]

Brownells has it, I think Midway USA does, maybe Mid South? IT is real good stuff!! When I come in to clean a gun and if I had forgot to clean left from the use, I will go back to my lod stand by! Have you ever seen Dynamite wire? If not, it is a copper wire20-24ga real small and covered with rubber. I live close to some strips mines, they shut down in the earlier 80's I must of pick up 2000 yards of it they never used it twice, so I would take and cut 32" peice and on one end I would take a couple patches and twist a bow tie soak them good and do my job!
Have a good one!
Greg

 

[fireball168]

.... time to do some google fu to find who carries it in town.

Mineweld & Industrial Supply have had it at times.

 

[Icarry2]

OK, I am about out of ideas.

I tried running a brush 10 strokes and then wet patch with Hoppe's No. 9, still dirty.. Over and Over and Over.. 100 patches.. Still Dirty..

I tried running a brush 10 strokes and then wet patch with Hoppe's No. 9 Copper Solvent, still dirty.. Over and Over and Over.. maybe 80 patches.. Still Dirty..

I tried Birchwood Casey's Bore Scrubber Foaming Gel Bore Cleaner. Plugged the barrel, filled it with the foam, let it gas off then added more, still dirty..

I tried running a brush 10 strokes and then wet patch with Kroil on it and still dirty.. Over and Over and Over.. maybe 120 patches.. Still Dirty..

I tried plugging the barrel and filling it with Kroil and letting it sit for two days and then running a brush 10 strokes and then wet patch with Kroil on it and still dirty..

I am out of ideas.

I even tried heating the barrel both on the bench and from shooting at the range and then cleaning and still this barrel will not clean up..

I guess I need to look into other methods of cleaning the crap out of this rifle.

Or maybe I am just too picky on how clean I want a barrel.

 

[Mr.JAG]

whoops.

 

[fireball168]

It is time to break out the borescope to see if there is actually anything still in the barrel.

 

[Brownie]

I have used sloughfoots method on numerous occasions. I would reccomend a good scrubbing with jbs bore paste.

 

[Icarry2]

@ fireball.. a dirty patch is what I use to tell me my rifle is clean or was I taught wrong?

Thanks Brownie I will try that..