Reserve training in Wisconsin

[OEF5]

Yup! The bases are extensive enough for it. No reason for their slow vehicles to add to any road congestion.

Dude you need to get down south a bit more....

Like around Atterbury lol, they run convoy training on the normal roads ALL the time. Yes they use the Camp as well, but that's for specific things. The training outside or off post is for more realistic drivers training so they know how to deal with traffic. and OMG on some of those convoys they have GUNS!!!!!!!!!

It's pretty real as well since people like you are going to be all pissy with the SLOW Vehicles

 

[Trooper]

Actually, for Indiana, you're correct. We're the 4th largest Guard force in the nation, behind California, Texas, and either Georgia or Pennsylvania, I think.

If we had mandatory military service, as Israel and the Swiss have, we would have a 15 million man army (National Guard). If we had a force that large, with every male who is qualified serving, it is doubtful that the government would ever push anything. The more people who serve, the less able government is of controlling us.

A police state requires that there is an elite warrior class and the majority of the population are uneducated serfs. When everyone is a warrior then it is far harder to control them. Instead you have to lead, not order.

 

[badwolf.usmc]

Is THAT what they're calling it now? Of course, the National Defense Medal was the "roadguard ribbon". Nice to know that how most of us regard the "I was there" awards hasn't changed.

Fire watch ribbon
The pizza stain ribbon
The Boot ribbon
Better than nothing ribbon
It goes by many names.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

If we had mandatory military service, as Israel and the Swiss have, we would have a 15 million man army (National Guard). If we had a force that large, with every male who is qualified serving, it is doubtful that the government would ever push anything. The more people who serve, the less able government is of controlling us.

A police state requires that there is an elite warrior class and the majority of the population are uneducated serfs. When everyone is a warrior then it is far harder to control them. Instead you have to lead, not order.

Conscription, except where national survival is at stake (which is true in both Israel AND Switzerland due to their specific issues of population and small geographic boundaries), is just as corrosive to a nation as the creation of "an elite warrior class" and we here in this nation haven't created such; we create soldiers - some of whom but by all means not all - may be considered "warriors". Having been in the Service at the tail end of the Draft (I got my Draft letter during Basic Training) and having witnessed the beginning of the All Volunteer Army and its evolution, I think we're just as well off with the situation we have today. In times of national emergency where mobilization is called for, the Active Services as well as the Reserves should buy us enough time to fully mobilize the population - if the population is willing to be mobilized. If the general population has had its sense of patriotism drummed out of it through whatever means, we'd be no more successful at creating "elite" formations than the Russians were under Communism.

 

[Trooper]

Conscription, except where national survival is at stake (which is true in both Israel AND Switzerland due to their specific issues of population and small geographic boundaries), is just as corrosive to a nation as the creation of "an elite warrior class" and we here in this nation haven't created such; we create soldiers - some of whom but by all means not all - may be considered "warriors". Having been in the Service at the tail end of the Draft (I got my Draft letter during Basic Training) and having witnessed the beginning of the All Volunteer Army and its evolution, I think we're just as well off with the situation we have today. In times of national emergency where mobilization is called for, the Active Services as well as the Reserves should buy us enough time to fully mobilize the population - if the population is willing to be mobilized. If the general population has had its sense of patriotism drummed out of it through whatever means, we'd be no more successful at creating "elite" formations than the Russians were under Communism.

I am not wanting a draft which is unfair. Rather mandatory service with military oversight on how the kids are raised so that they finish high school, are in good physical condition, are not drug users or have character issues.

A large military could then be used as augmentees for police work, for fire fighting, and other aspects. We now use volunteer fire fighters and reserve police which are organized militia far more than the National Guard is.

I believe that we have a duty to serve. In the old days there was that mandate for duty. Again we do not have "a well regulated" male population as requried by the 2nd amendment.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Conscription, except where national survival is at stake (which is true in both Israel AND Switzerland due to their specific issues of population and small geographic boundaries), is just as corrosive to a nation as the creation of "an elite warrior class" and we here in this nation haven't created such; we create soldiers - some of whom but by all means not all - may be considered "warriors". Having been in the Service at the tail end of the Draft (I got my Draft letter during Basic Training) and having witnessed the beginning of the All Volunteer Army and its evolution, I think we're just as well off with the situation we have today. In times of national emergency where mobilization is called for, the Active Services as well as the Reserves should buy us enough time to fully mobilize the population - if the population is willing to be mobilized. If the general population has had its sense of patriotism drummed out of it through whatever means, we'd be no more successful at creating "elite" formations than the Russians were under Communism.

Let me repeat myself in case you didn't understand me. Whether you call it "conscription" or mandatory service, the concept is the same.

 

[rambone]

If we had mandatory military service, as Israel and the Swiss have, we would have a 15 million man army (National Guard). If we had a force that large, with every male who is qualified serving, it is doubtful that the government would ever push anything. The more people who serve, the less able government is of controlling us.

A police state requires that there is an elite warrior class and the majority of the population are uneducated serfs. When everyone is a warrior then it is far harder to control them. Instead you have to lead, not order.

I am not wanting a draft which is unfair. Rather mandatory service with military oversight on how the kids are raised so that they finish high school, are in good physical condition, are not drug users or have character issues.

A large military could then be used as augmentees for police work, for fire fighting, and other aspects. We now use volunteer fire fighters and reserve police which are organized militia far more than the National Guard is.

I believe that we have a duty to serve. In the old days there was that mandate for duty. Again we do not have "a well regulated" male population as requried by the 2nd amendment.

Let me get this straight. You think your government would be kept in check if you give it the power to enslave and indoctrinate everyone with mandatory service to the State? Military should run public schools and condition children? Government would never "try anything" then, huh? I guess its a bit late, they basically own you already. Boot camp for everyone is not exactly a good way to foster individual thinkers who question authority and resist government.

You described the police state I hope we can avoid. Your dream is America's nightmare.

 

[Trooper]

Let me get this straight. You think your government would be kept in check if you give it the power to enslave and indoctrinate everyone with mandatory service to the State? Military should run public schools and condition children? Government would never "try anything" then, huh? I guess its a bit late, they basically own you already. Boot camp for everyone is not exactly a good way to foster individual thinkers who question authority and resist government.

You described the police state I hope we can avoid. Your dream is America's nightmare.

Except that the more you train people, the more involved they are, the less control you have over them. And the military tends to be far more conservative than the civilian leadership. In fact most leftwingers do not serve. The current military is far more conservative/libertarian than the general population. And the typical service member is anything but a blind follower.

The reason that the Soviet Union was able to do what they did was that the Russian people had never experienced freedom. We Americans have had more freedom than any other people in history. And we tend to only follow when led by someone we trust.

Just remember that the typical infantry platoon has 50 young men all armed with full auto weapons. Think that you can force them to do something stupid???

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Except that the more you train people, the more involved they are, the less control you have over them. And the military tends to be far more conservative than the civilian leadership. In fact most leftwingers do not serve. The current military is far more conservative/libertarian than the general population. And the typical service member is anything but a blind follower.

The reason that the Soviet Union was able to do what they did was that the Russian people had never experienced freedom. We Americans have had more freedom than any other people in history. And we tend to only follow when led by someone we trust.

Just remember that the typical infantry platoon has 50 young men all armed with full auto weapons. Think that you can force them to do something stupid???

Both you and (I can't believe I'm saying this) Rambone are right - and you're both wrong too.

You're right when you say that an armed infantry platoon can't be chivvied around (except by an armed infantry company or higher, wouldn't you say?) and Rambone is (choke) correct when he says it would be a BAD idea to allow the military to oversee basic education in this country.

You're both wrong if you think that universal military service and/or military training is a panacea for our ills or a potential dictatorship in the making.

Universal service can only come out of a national conviction that everyone owes a duty to society (not the government, not the military) to be prepared to protect that society (NOT the government thereof) from all enemies, foreign and domestic. Not everyone would be willing to serve, even so. But conscription DID work when society supported it as being desirable and/or necessary for the good of the society. Vounteerism serves the same purpose, but again, it must be supported by society in order to be successful to any great degree.

Where we are as a national society today, we're tending to be more insular tribal groups and less a "melting pot", which latter formula was the glue that helped make us a great nation, and which has eroded with every special interest that's arisen in the past 60 years.

Fortunately, we have enough people, at present, to fulfill the needs of the Armed Services, and we have plenty of former military - now two or three generations with actual combat experience - now in civilian life to keep us as free as we (collectively) want to be. That's going to have to be enough. Or not.

 

[rambone]

Except that the more you train people, the more involved they are, the less control you have over them. And the military tends to be far more conservative than the civilian leadership. In fact most leftwingers do not serve. The current military is far more conservative/libertarian than the general population.

Your ideas of forced servitude are the opposite of libertarian/conservative; its more of a neocon/statist concept. Free people don't have to get compulsory training, conditioning, brainwashing, drug testing, toughening, or whatever else you had in mind. The state doesn't own us and should have none of those powers. I have no interest in serving the Federal agenda, or being another brick in the wall, no thank you.

Just remember that the typical infantry platoon has 50 young men all armed with full auto weapons. Think that you can force them to do something stupid???

Yes, absolutely.

 

[Trooper]

Your ideas of forced servitude are the opposite of libertarian/conservative; its more of a neocon/statist concept. Free people don't have to get compulsory training, conditioning, brainwashing, drug testing, toughening, or whatever else you had in mind. The state doesn't own us and should have none of those powers. I have no interest in serving the Federal agenda, or being another brick in the wall, no thank you.


Yes, absolutely.

You may have served. But you really do not understand how indepentent most of us in the military are. We are not statists rather a group of individuals willing working together in a team to not only defend our country but to return to society as leaders. We are warriors, not slaves.

 

[rambone]

You may have served. But you really do not understand how indepentent most of us in the military are. We are not statists rather a group of individuals willing working together in a team to not only defend our country but to return to society as leaders. We are warriors, not slaves.

Conscripts are no different than slaves. Conscription is a purely statist idea, in every way. The idea assumes that the state owns the citizen, and that the will of the collective trumps the will of the individual. It promotes centralized planning, militarism, and prevents individuals from pursuing their own happiness.

 

[Kagnew]

You may have served. But you really do not understand how indepentent most of us in the military are. We are not statists rather a group of individuals willing working together in a team to not only defend our country but to return to society as leaders. We are warriors, not slaves.

Excellent!

 

[Kagnew]

mandatory service with military oversight on how the kids are raised so that they finish high school, are in good physical condition, are not drug users or have character issues.

Was this supposed to be in purple?

 

[hacksawfg]

Is THAT what they're calling it now? Of course, the National Defense Medal was the "roadguard ribbon". Nice to know that how most of us regard the "I was there" awards hasn't changed.

On a related note (I think there's one NSFW word in there, sorry, best quality I could find):

[ame]http://youtu.be/9CBTYmZfDTI[/ame]

 

[XSVskill]

This happens all the time. drivers training in military vics on city streets is nothing new. (think about all the reserve units that are not within a practical distance from the aforementioned "federal land" that has paved streets.

Now that I think about it, I don't think I've ever meant anyone with a military DL that HASN'T driven on city streets.

 

[Kagnew]

Conscripts are no different than slaves. Conscription is a purely statist idea, in every way. The idea assumes that the state owns the citizen, and that the will of the collective trumps the will of the individual. It promotes centralized planning, militarism, and prevents individuals from pursuing their own happiness.

You've got no worries, rambone. If we still had the draft I doubt that they would want you and, if they did decide that they were that hard up, a mall ninja like you would probably be singing "Oh, Canada".

 

[rambone]

You've got no worries, rambone. If we still had the draft I doubt that they would want you and, if they did decide that they were that hard up, a mall ninja like you would probably be singing "Oh, Canada".

The draft is one pen stroke away from being used again. And meanwhile the U.S. continues to provoke wars around the world. I'd hardly say that there is no reason to worry. Enslaving my neighbor is not acceptable either.

 

[hacksawfg]

The draft is one pen stroke away from being used again. And meanwhile the U.S. continues to provoke wars around the world. I'd hardly say that there is no reason to worry. Enslaving my neighbor is not acceptable either.

Is it OK if she's hot?

 

[jeremy]

And a sad fact is that we don't have the airlift assets to do that even if we were inclined to spend the money. What airlift assets we have are busy providing logistics to the Global War on Terror (that isn't anymore).

Another thank you to President Clinton...