Requisition of Guns in Private Sale between an IN Resident and Out-of-State Resident

[Tru3Flight91]

Yes, but the other person is still committing a felony

OP, Establish IN residency to purchase in state, either from a person before 21, or from an FFL in IN after 21. Either way, you have to be an IN resident (IN DL, Lease, Etc) to buy a handgun here. If you want to keep your NY license (I was a resident of Bethesda, MD before coming to IU) you must buy the handgun in that state.

Well there si certainly no plan to keep my New York Drivers License so when I do move to IN I will sign myself on to my friend's lease and apply for a Driver's License in state there. Then we can avoid all this mess and all will be good.

I think, not entirely sure, but I think we may have finally found a solution.

Thanks.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Well there si certainly no plan to keep my New York Drivers License so when I do move to IN I will sign myself on to my friend's lease and apply for a Driver's License in state there. Then we can avoid all this mess and all will be good.

I think, not entirely sure, but I think we may have finally found a solution.

Thanks.

You don't even have to co-sign yourself up to your friend's lease.

A college / campus address can indeed be considered a "permanent address". It happened all the time when I was an RA in college.

Lots of folks used their campus address for all manner of "official" stuff...voter registration...bank accounts...etc etc.

The housing agreement you sign is considered a "lease"...

Thing is, you'd have to continually be changing your addy after every academic year is up and you were forced to move.

-J-

 

[pudly]

I think, not entirely sure, but I think we may have finally found a solution.

and rep to you for making the effort to find a legal solution to a tricky situation. Some would be happy to cut corners and risk committing a felony, but you've shown that you feel bound by both honor and the law. Thanks.

 

[CarmelHP]

Now I'm going to go full circle and ask the original question again, but maybe in a little plainer English.

If I am 18, not a resident of IN, and posses a LTCH in Indiana can I or can I not buy a handgun in a private sale between myself and a current resident?

I'm only rephrasing so maybe I can get some more replies and specifically more helpful ones. Not that you guys above haven't been helpful already

Why are you not a resident of Indiana? I've answered this question about half a dozen times over the last two years. I'm appalled by the level of misinformation in this thread.

27 CFR 178.11: MEANING OF
TERMS
An out-of-State college student
may establish residence in a State
by residing and maintaining a
home in a college dormitory or in a
location off-campus during the
school term.
ATF Rul. 80-21
"State of residence" is defined by
regulation in 27 CFR 178.11 as the
State in which an individual regularly
resides or maintains a home. The
regulation also provides an example
of an individual who maintains a
home in State X and a home in State
Y. The individual regularly resides in
State X except for the summer
months and in State Y for the summer
months of the year. The regulation
states that during the time the individual
actually resides in State X he is a
resident of State X, and during the
time he actually resides in State Y he
is a resident of State Y.
Applying the above example to out of-
State college students it is held,
that during the time the students actually
reside in a college dormitory or
at an off-campus location they are
considered residents of the State
where the dormitory or off-campus
home is located. During the time out of-
State college students actually
reside in their home State they are
considered residents of their home
State.
[ATFB 1980-4 25]

BTW, the 90 day rule is only for lawful immigrant aliens locating in the state. ATF Rul. 81-3

Buy in private sales to your heart's content while you reside here.

IAALBNYL

 

[shooter521]

IAALBNYL

I Am A Lawyer But Not Your Lawyer?

 

[CarmelHP]

I Am A Lawyer But Not Your Lawyer?

Yup.

 

[Tru3Flight91]

Thank you for the helpful and informative post Carmel. Does the baove stated regualtion also mean that I can apply for a Driver's License in Indiana or no?

You've brightened my day. I will be sending some Rep your way.

 

[Tru3Flight91]

and rep to you for making the effort to find a legal solution to a tricky situation. Some would be happy to cut corners and risk committing a felony, but you've shown that you feel bound by both honor and the law. Thanks.

It's just who i am. I love this counrty and the only way we can keep it that way is by following the established laws. Thanks for the rep, although unescessary it is certainly appreciated.

 

[CarmelHP]

Does the baove stated regualtion also mean that I can apply for a Driver's License in Indiana or no?

The ruling only addresses who is a state resident for purposes of acquiring a firearm, it doesn't address the state law matter of who is eligible for that state's driver's license. For purposes of obtaining a driver's license:
Indiana Residency Requirements

IC 9-13-2-78
Indiana resident
Sec. 78. "Indiana resident" refers to a person who is one (1) of the following:
(1) A person who has been living in Indiana for at least one hundred eighty-three (183) days during a calendar year and who has a legal residence in another state. However, the term does not include a person who has been living in Indiana for any of the following purposes:
(A) Attending a postsecondary educational institution.
(B) Serving on active duty in the armed forces of the United States.
(2) A person who is living in Indiana if the person has no other legal residence.
(3) A person who is registered to vote in Indiana.
(4) A person who has a child enrolled in an elementary or a secondary school located in Indiana.
(5) A person who has more than one-half (1/2) of the person's gross income (as defined in Section 61 of the Internal Revenue Code) derived from sources in Indiana using the provisions applicable to determining the source of adjusted gross income that are set forth in IC 6-3-2-2. However, a person who is considered a resident under this subdivision is not a resident if the person proves by a preponderance of the evidence that the person is not a resident under subdivisions (1) through (4).
(6) A person who:
(A) is enrolled as a student of a truck driver training school;
(B) has legal residence in another state but is living in Indiana temporarily for the express purpose of taking a course of study from the truck driver training school; and
(C) intends to return to the person's state of residence upon completion of the course of study of the truck driver training school.
As added by P.L.2-1991, SEC.1. Amended by P.L.188-2006, SEC.2; P.L.2-2007, SEC.139.


Remember, these are two different bodies of law, one is state law regarding who qualifies for a driver's license, the other is federal law on who is considered a resident for purposes of acquiring a firearm in a particular state.

 

[12bee]

long guns can only be sold to residents of neighboring states. New York, Florida and tim buk too are not neighboring states. When selling long guns to neighboring state residents we also must abide by that states laws regarding long guns. Such as IL has a 24 hour hold, I must follow that hold.

You must live in Indiana for 3 mths to be considered a resident. This can be proven with bills in your name to an address in IN, lease, etc.

I believe the neighboring state part was changed several years ago, this is a quote from the ATF site but, only pertains to long guns.

Q: May a licensed dealer sell a firearm to a non-licensee who is a resident of another State? Generally, a firearm may not lawfully be sold by a licensed dealer to a non-licensee who resides in a State other than the State in which the seller’s licensed premises is located. However, the sale may be made if the firearm is shipped to a licensed dealer whose business is in the purchaser’s State of residence and the purchaser takes delivery of the firearm from the dealer in his or her State of residence. In addition, a licensee may sell a rifle or shotgun to a person who is not a resident of the State where the licensee’s business premises is located in an over-the-counter transaction, provided the transaction complies with State law in the State where the licensee is located and in the State where the purchaser resides.
[18 U.S.C. 922(b)(3)]

 

[finity]

I believe the neighboring state part was changed several years ago, this is a quote from the ATF site but, only pertains to long guns.

Q: May a licensed dealer sell a firearm to a non-licensee who is a resident of another State? Generally, a firearm may not lawfully be sold by a licensed dealer to a non-licensee who resides in a State other than the State in which the seller’s licensed premises is located. However, the sale may be made if the firearm is shipped to a licensed dealer whose business is in the purchaser’s State of residence and the purchaser takes delivery of the firearm from the dealer in his or her State of residence. In addition, a licensee may sell a rifle or shotgun to a person who is not a resident of the State where the licensee’s business premises is located in an over-the-counter transaction, provided the transaction complies with State law in the State where the licensee is located and in the State where the purchaser resides.
[18 U.S.C. 922(b)(3)]

You know, I was about to post:

"The restriction on selling a long gun to only residents of neighboring states is a state law. See IC 35-47-5-6."

but on a second reading of both laws I'm not really sure what the point of the IN law is. There is no law I could find that makes it illegal for a non-resident to buy a long gun in IN as long as the transaction is done FTF. Why would IN have a law that says something is NOT illegal? That goes against the whole concept of "it's legal unless there's a law against it."

Unless it is to leave no doubt that the transaction "fully compl[ies] with the legal conditions of sale in both such States". Or maybe it is a relic of a time when federal law required that the state list where a person could legally buy across state lines without transferring it to an ffl in the buyers state?

From the reading of the federal law it looks as though, as long as I personally go to the gun shop, I could buy a long gun anywhere I wanted.