Reporter wants to talk to gun owners

[jedi]

So off topic a bit. We have one person that has contact their state rep so far about the LTCH database being public so far. Now that the story is done (from our part:INGO input). I think we seriously need a coordinated effort to get our lawmakers to change the law a bit to make the DB for police/court use only.

Do we have a post on this yet? Sample letters? SAP involved? Other groups? NRA has been informed already but perhaps not moving yet on it?
????

 

[jpo117]

It sounds like you're saying you don't understand his comment. Benjamin Franklin has been quoted as saying that doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

Blessings,
Bill

I understood the comment--I just meant that I haven't paid a lot of attention to anti-gun journalism in the past due to my lack of interest in gun rights and firearms in general. Now that I've jumped in I'll get jaded quickly, I'm sure

 

[Indecision]

I just e-mailed the guy today, got an almost immediate response, and replied back with answers to his qestions, so I doubt it's been written yet.

 

[techres]

Michael Malik directly linked into our thread about his article:

Handgun series coming soon : Government Tracker

After about a month of interviews, hours reading state code and cursing at Excel for crashing on several occasions — my three-part series on handguns is set to run.
I’m in the process of writing the stories now. The plan is to have them run on Sunday, Monday and Tuesday with different graphics and photos.
I wanted to take the time to thank everyone who answered my earlier request on this blog to interview handgun owners. Those who I had a chance to interview offered some unique insights for my stories and, in the end, will have made the stories better because they spoke to me.
The series is broken down into three distinct ideas:
The Obama effect: Examining the rise in handgun applications and gun purchases since President Obama took office.
Permits in Monroe County: Detailing how many and what kind of handgun permits are within Monroe County.
Permits in public: Looking at the interaction between law enforcement, the public and handgun owners who carry their handguns in public.
This is certainly an issue that people feel passionately about across the state. This is evident from postings on a forum called INGunOwners.com, which had a lot of people talking about my stories after I posted on the blog looking for handgun owners to interview.
I think I learned a lot while working on this story. I hope everyone enjoys it. Thanks again for reading.

The article has hot links to INGO and this thread.

I wish he had not linked the upswing in LTCH with Obama as the national trend for CCW has been on a steady upswing that I would attach to crime first, Katrina and other disasters second, Bush third, and Obama somewhere far further down the list. As you can see here:

In any event, the date for the article is now set. I will be at an Appleseed that morning but will see it when I get back. We may get some activity here too soon.

So, please be on your best behavior guys and maybe we will pick up some new members in the end.

 

[XMil]

Thanks for following up on this.

That graphic is amazing. I had no idea that the right to bear arms had become so much less infringed over the past 23 years.

That picture is as uplifting as the "unemployment by county" chart in another thread here, is depressing.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Totally agree with you on this, Techres... While the Obama effect is real, the overall crime rate going up / economy going down is really the biggest motivator for more people to take action and get a permit. On the other hand, I would submit that the Obama effect has been more effective in getting people who were already LTCH holders to buy more weapons. The two effects are distinct, although it would be easy for someone not to catch the distinction.

Further, I agree with the heads up about good behavior...

 

[Bill of Rights]

Thanks for following up on this.

That graphic is amazing. I had no idea that the right to bear arms had become so much less infringed over the past 23 years.

That picture is as uplifting as the "unemployment by county" chart in another thread here, is depressing.

Agreed. I would like to see the changes, if any, to that graphic if the last three years were included also. I do know I was told a long time back that Montana should be green with a few blue spots where the major cities are.

I also note, as Techres did, that the trend is continuing; it didn't start with Barry Hussein. To say otherwise is similar to pointing to the East early on the morning of 1/20/2009 and saying "We swore him in yesterday... The sun will rise there because he is now in office!"

Lastly, as I will be at the same Appleseed that Techres will be at that morning, if some INGOer in Bloomington who has a subscription to the HT would copy/paste the story (and any photos) to INGO, I'm sure we'd all like to read it and see what's been done, good or bad. I would be very pleased if I was to find out a) that he chose to take the high road and publish only facts, not opinion and b) that the HT board chose to either continue to publish the info as they currently do or preferably, that they chose instead to cease and desist publishing it at all.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[jedi]

=/

The entire map should be GREEN and NOT a sea of colors!

 

[SirRealism]

=/

The entire map should be GREEN and NOT a sea of colors!

+1 Now that's a green movement I can get behind.

 

[LCPer]

The amount of blue seems to be getting better. But I agree ALL GREEN will be best.

 

[pudly]

One step at a time folks... I'll be happy when that red disappears from the Indiana's western border.

 

[jedi]

One step at a time folks... I'll be happy when that red disappears from the Indiana's western border.

Keep dreaming! We have a better chance at putting a Latino/Asian in the white house than seeing that state no any other color. Unless you can get rid of Cook County (where Chicago, IL) is in the corruption in that county will never allow the state to go any other color.

They would rather bankrupt the state before it changes color.

 

[NateIU10]

The first article can be seen at the herald times main site. Copied below for your ease.

Log in: HeraldTimesOnline.com

One in 26 Monroe County residents has a permit to carry handguns
By Michael Malik 331-4370 | mmalik@heraldt.com
November 29, 2009, last update: 11/28 @ 9:46 pm
» Newsletters & alerts: local information sent to your inbox or phone. Sign up here.

click photos to advance (3 photos)

Nathan Siegel practices on the pistol range with his 9 mm handguns at the Martinsville Sportsman’s Conservation Club. The ejected bullet casing can be seen in the split-second after the firing. Monty Howell | Herald-Times​

Monroe County resident Brent Haley carries his .45-caliber semiautomatic handgun in a holster on his hip anywhere the law allows.
“I have carried my handgun into the public mall on many occasions, out to dinner with my wife or even over to my father’s house for Christmas morning,” Haley said.
“I always carry my handguns fully loaded with a cartridge chambered and ready to fire.”
Haley, like many other handgun owners within Monroe County, said he carries his handgun for protection in case he ever needed it. He hasn’t yet.
Haley is one of nearly 327,000 Indiana residents who have some kind of active handgun permit, according to a database maintained by the Indiana State Police.
The ISP’s database, obtained by The Herald-Times through a public records request, paints a picture of how many Hoosiers can carry a handgun in public.
The database shows:
Of the 4,976 active handgun permits within Monroe County, 4,941 — or 99.2 percent — are personal protection permits, which is on pace with the state as a whole. The other 35 handgun permits are other types of permits, such as hunting and target shooting.
One in about 26 Monroe County residents has a permit to carry a handgun in public. To put that in perspective, that means of the 600 people who could fit into a sold-out Buskirk-Chumley Theater, about 23 people could be armed.
In the H-T coverage area, Brown County has the highest percentage of people permitted to carry handguns in public based on population, at about one in eight.
The handgun permit database may provide an accurate picture of how many people can legally carry handguns in public, but it’s only part of the picture.
An Indiana resident doesn’t need a permit to purchase a handgun or to keep a handgun in a resident’s home or business, according to state code. Also, a permit doesn’t restrict the number of handguns a person can own.
Plus, Indiana honors handgun permits from all other states.
Handguns a last resort

Bloomington resident Nathan Siegel said he applied for and received his lifetime personal protection permit in early 2008 for self-protection.
“Every time I’m not going onto (Indiana University’s campus) or to a statutorily prohibited place, I carry,” Siegel said. “I mostly carry concealed, but do occasionally open carry.”
While many handgun owners who legally carry their guns in public do so for protection, handgun experts strongly recommend using a gun as a last resort.
Emanuel Kapelsohn, an adjunct professor in IU’s criminal justice department and a firearms instructor and expert, said people should try to exhaust every other reasonable option, such as running away or avoiding potentially dangerous situations, before using a handgun in self-defense.
“If someone wants your wallet, my best advice to them would be give them your wallet,” Kapelsohn said. “My reaction is there’s nothing in my wallet that’s worth losing my life over. I hope there’s nothing in my wallet that’s worth taking someone else’s life over, either.”
Kapelsohn said people do use handguns effectively to defend themselves.
“Most of the defensive uses of firearms are in one’s home or place of business,” he said.
While having a permit to carry a handgun in public in Indiana doesn’t require any kind of training, Kapelsohn said handgun owners should have various kinds of instruction. He said a handgun owner who carries a weapon for self-defense should be trained in firearms safety, know how to shoot it and more.
“The person also needs to understand the law of self-defense, so they understand when they are entitled to use the gun,” Kapelsohn said.
Also, people should get situational training, similar to law enforcement officers, which “puts them under some stress and (helps them) understand the complexity of the situation,” he said.
Indiana State Police Sgt. Curt Durnil said he agrees that handgun owners should receive training, know how to fire the gun and be safe when carrying in public and storing a handgun at home.
“At home, the gun owner can secure the gun in a lock box or (use) a trigger guard, especially if children are in the home,” Durnil said.
While guns in the home can be useful for self-defense, they can also wind up being used against the owners, or being stolen and used in the commission of other crimes.
More than a year ago, two teenagers forced their way into a Brown County home with the intention of stealing beer and shot and killed Richard “Dude” Voland. The teenagers also shot Voland’s wife.
Bennie Reed, 17, shot Voland in the head with a handgun the teen had stolen from a neighbor. Voland had shot the teenager in the arm with his own handgun. Later, Reed shot Voland’s wife in the stomach with Voland’s own handgun.
Let cops enforce laws

Law enforcement officials and handgun experts urge people with handguns to not try to respond to crimes. Durnil said Indiana law stipulates that a person can use a handgun to defend themselves and their property.
Plus, Durnil said, carrying a handgun is not the “know-all and be-all” of handling a dangerous or life-threatening situation.
“It can be a life-defending tool to a person who is trained and can use their training and experience in an effective way,” Durnil said. “With these points in mind, there are many examples where people who were lawfully armed were in a position to save their life or the life of another person, as well as examples when an error in judgment by the lawfully armed person caused the loss of an innocent life.”
Kapelsohn said police officers have between 650 and 900 hours of training, with 60 to 90 hours of that dedicated to firearms instruction. Lay people should limit the use of their handguns to self-protection and not try to defuse a dangerous situation.
“A police officer hopefully has enough training and judgment to deal with that situation and (a private individual) may not,” Kapelsohn said.
Durnil said guns are a “no mistake” tool.
“Any mistakes made with a gun have the obvious potential to be fatal,” Durnil said. “You have to be perfect.”
Gun database, live chat coming online

This week, HeraldTimesOnline.com will launch its new gun permit database. You’ll be able to search gun permit records by county, city or town and street on HTO. Also, reporter Michael Malik will answer your questions about his gun permit series and the new database in a live Q&A at 11 a.m. Tuesday at HeraldTimesOnline.com/livediscussion.


Copyright: HeraldTimesOnline.com 2009

 

[Panama]

This week, HeraldTimesOnline.com will launch its new gun permit database. You’ll be able to search gun permit records by county, city or town and street on HTO.

That is just lovely.
A database for burglars to use for online shopping, how convenient.
I wonder how anyone can think this is a good thing? Besides the bad guys that is.

 

[Bigum1969]

That is just lovely.
A database for burglars to use for online shopping, how convenient.
I wonder how anyone can think this is a good thing? Besides the bad guys that is.

Hope this doesn't give any ideas to our paper down here.

 

[NateIU10]

This week, HeraldTimesOnline.com will launch its new gun permit database. You’ll be able to search gun permit records by county, city or town and street on HTO.

That is just lovely.
A database for burglars to use for online shopping, how convenient.
I wonder how anyone can think this is a good thing? Besides the bad guys that is.

Hope this doesn't give any ideas to our paper down here.

As long as address and other personal information is not in the DB, this is the same thing that has been on the HT website for the last 3 years that I know of. You could search by street, city or county and view the number of permits per street. Now, if it goes into addresses and the like, I'd have an issue with it.

 

[Suprtek]

I just spent quite a while reading this thread. Interesting subject. It seems to me that all this could lead to another argument that I admit to having mixed feelings about myself. That issue would be whether it should be a requirement to have a permit at all. While it would be silly to argue against laws that prohibit felons or those proven to be less than capable from owning or carrying firearms, there could be an argument regarding the constitutionality of requiring a permit for the average citizen to do so. Without permits (or firearms registration requirements which we fortunately do not have), there would be no list to publish. Like most of you, I carry often and hold a LTCH. I am neither ashamed or afraid of others knowing about it. However, I don't start conversations with strangers by telling them so.

 

[MACHINEGUN]

I wish I hadn't seen this thread.. this is disgusting.

Good to go Indiana.. tell all the BG's where all the "free" firearms are.. really smart.

 

[chickenman]

Well good know that 1 in 26 people in bloomington could have a gun on them but to bad we don't know who's carrying llegally.

 

[Indecision]

I just spent quite a while reading this thread. Interesting subject. It seems to me that all this could lead to another argument that I admit to having mixed feelings about myself. That issue would be whether it should be a requirement to have a permit at all. While it would be silly to argue against laws that prohibit felons or those proven to be less than capable from owning or carrying firearms, there could be an argument regarding the constitutionality of requiring a permit for the average citizen to do so. Without permits (or firearms registration requirements which we fortunately do not have), there would be no list to publish. Like most of you, I carry often and hold a LTCH. I am neither ashamed or afraid of others knowing about it. However, I don't start conversations with strangers by telling them so.

I don't think we should require a permit to carry. The people who can't legaly carry are going to carry anyway. That's all there is to it.