Report: U.S. Drug War Spending Is Unjustifiable

[Yukon227]

DARE isn't effective. That's not the type of education I'm talking about. I mean education for high school and up. Education about addiction and recovery and the mental aspects of how it happens

 

[orange]

Speaking of drug war spending, here's a relevant article.
American Banks 'High' On Drug Money: How a Whistleblower Blew the Lid Off Wachovia-Drug Cartel Money Laundering Scheme

Gives an interesting view into the profits involved - both those made by the cartels, and those made in the United States - and the players' near-total immunity from prosecution. Choice quotes below.

...from 2004-2007, a staggering amount of illegal drug proceeds totaling $378.4 billion dollars were transferred into Wachovia by the Mexico-based Casa Cambios..

Douglas Edwards, senior vice president of Wachovia Bank confessed they didn't do enough to spot illicit funds in handling the $378.4 billions for the Mexico's Casa Cambios. But Edwards declined to answer specific questions including how much they earned for handling the billions of dollars for the currency operation.

Overall, the amount of drug proceeds ($378 billion dollars) that the CDC deposited into Wachovia Bank actually equaled one third of Mexico's entire $1.4 trillion dollar annual GDP.

As part of the agreement Wachovia agreed to pay the government a fine of $110 million dollars with an additional fine of $50 million dollars to be paid to the U.S. Treasury Department. The total fine of $160 million dollars was less than 2% of the bank's $12.3 billion dollars in profit made in 2009. By the time Wachovia agreed to pay the hefty fine, Wells Fargo purchased Wachovia during the banking crisis for $12.7 billion. Then Well Fargo reaped a windfall from the government, a gift of $25 billion dollars of taxpayers money as part of President Obama's stimulus package in 2009.

Me, I can't help but laugh. Damn, I should've gone into banking.

 

[88GT]

DARE isn't effective. That's not the type of education I'm talking about. I mean education for high school and up. Education about addiction and recovery and the mental aspects of how it happens

My friend, if you wait until high school to start implementing an educational program, you're too late.

Kids are making the choice long before they reach high school. And until they suffer the consequences themselves or have a close friend who does, all the information in the world is going to bounce right off their "it won't happen to me" backs. You'll just be spouting off about scare tactics, don't ya know. I mean, it hasn't happened to them, so you must be stretching the truth.

 

[mrjarrell]

DARE isn't effective. That's not the type of education I'm talking about. I mean education for high school and up. Education about addiction and recovery and the mental aspects of how it happens

"Isn't effective" is putting it mildly. DARE is an abysmal failure, by any metric. My MIL was one of the people involved in the polling study done back in the late 90's and fully half of the DARE "graduates" had been involved with LE and drugs in a negative fashion. Many were doing time for drug offences. The worst aspect is that they have cops doing the program, rather than a scientifically qualified person. Most of what is given to kids, in the way of information is nothing more than factually inaccurate propaganda. It's a program whose time has come and gone, but they won't give up the money.

 

[misconfig]

The fact of the matter is: drugs are NEVER going away, you'll always have people that want to have altered states of consciousness.

Animals do it for heavens sake, eating rotting apples makes apes drunk and they look forward to it. As far as I'm concerned this addiction problem is a social issue that should be solved by allowing these drugs and educating people about the pro's and con's of each.

If they legalized all drugs, does this mean everyone is going to be a heroine abuser? NOPE, look at Portugal, they completely legalized ALL drugs after their heroine epidemic and things have been looking VERY good since.

If you guys have 1 hour to spend and would really like to see the inner workings of the Cartels and just how much money and influence they REALLY have, check this out.

Watch | Drug Wars - Silver or Lead: Part 1 | RIGHTNETWORK

 

[orange]

If they legalized all drugs, does this mean everyone is going to be a heroine abuser? NOPE, look at Portugal, they completely legalized ALL drugs after their heroine epidemic and things have been looking VERY good since.

This is one of my favorite arguments about legalizing drugs. I've actually had someone tell me that if drugs are legalized the United States will cease to exist, because we'll all be too high to fight or do anything at all.

Yes. Yes, of course. It all makes sense now! Especially when you consider that the United States ceased to exist with the repeal of prohibition, December 1933. I don't know about you but I've been too drunk to fight or do anything at all ever since.

 

[misconfig]

This is one of my favorite arguments about legalizing drugs. I've actually had someone tell me that if drugs are legalized the United States will cease to exist, because we'll all be too high to fight or do anything at all.

Yes. Yes, of course. It all makes sense now! Especially when you consider that the United States ceased to exist with the repeal of prohibition, December 1933. I don't know about you but I've been too drunk to fight or do anything at all ever since.

Exactly! Also, you can't forget the handful of US Government Medical Marijuana patients several still exist.

These people get 300 federally-rolled splifs a MONTH and have been receiving this since the 1980's. Someone please tell me the Gubment isn't trying to hide something.

Here's the list of patients from the US Sanctioned program:
http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000257

 

[orange]

Exactly! Also, you can't forget the handful of US Government Medical Marijuana patients several still exist.

These people get 300 federally-rolled splifs a MONTH and have been receiving this since the 1980's. Someone please tell me the Gubment isn't trying to hide something.

Here's the list of patients from the US Sanctioned program:
Who are the patients receiving medical marijuana through the federal government's Compassionate IND program? - Medical Marijuana - ProCon.org

Hey, thanks for the reminder..I completely forgot about these people until now. Now I vaguely recall reading an interview with one of them, and his complaining that the stuff is borderline useless, filled with chaff and seeds.

That's really beside the point though. How is this even possible when our government insists cannabis must be Schedule I, with no known medicinal use?

 

[misconfig]

Hey, thanks for the reminder..I completely forgot about these people until now. Now I vaguely recall reading an interview with one of them, and his complaining that the stuff is borderline useless, filled with chaff and seeds.

That's really beside the point though. How is this even possible when our government insists cannabis must be Schedule I, with no known medicinal use?

That's precisely the point, how can the Government take this stance? Putting MJ in Schedule 1 so it's canaboids cannot be researched to find new cures for diseases and curing aliments.

Not to mention, simply allowing people to use it for recreation too, we do that with Cigs and Alcohol, why not pot? It's been proven it's a wonder drug in particular, there is no one I hate more than someone saying it doesn't have a medical use. The plant has been used for 3,000 years, give me a break.

I have no respect for people taking that stance, in fact I think it makes them look like arrogant buttholes, plain and simple. Former Drug Czar McCaffrey is the one I hate the most.

 

[Yukon227]

I'm not saying wait until high school age for education. I think the scare tactics of some programs are a joke. I think teaching the dangers of addiction is an important issue. Everyone thinks it won't happen to me. I did. I'm now a recovering alcoholic. Education about the DEPENDENCE on a drug is what needs to be taught ...and the steps it takes to have a problem and progress into addiction. People need to understand that chemical changes occur in the brain when drugs are used and after a certain amount a person craves a drug or alcohol or tobacco, to feel normal

 

[misconfig]

I'm not saying wait until high school age for education. I think the scare tactics of some programs are a joke. I think teaching the dangers of addiction is an important issue. Everyone thinks it won't happen to me. I did. I'm now a recovering alcoholic. Education about the DEPENDENCE on a drug is what needs to be taught ...and the steps it takes to have a problem and progress into addiction.

I agree with this stance 100%, don't tell them we have a big and scary drugs out there that millions of people use but it will make you go "crazy" if you use.

What we need to do is teach people moderation and how to properly enjoy these little things we has humans enjoy from time to time. Just because cigs and alcoholic are LEGAL doesn't make it OK.

I've heard time and time again woman saying "If a guy does drugs like pot, it's a turn off and I would never date someone like that". Whilst they're getting hammered at a club and acting like a total slut.

Too many people think legality is a fancy way of saying "Oh it's OK to consume copious amounts".

The fact of the matter is this: fighting 'moral dilemmas' through means of government law is not healthy for our society, or the world in general.

 

[level.eleven]

The War on some Drugs runs deep.

How about a half a trillion dollars in the US banking system. Hell, Wachovia runs their own planes full of blow from Central America.

American Banks 'High' On Drug Money: How a Whistleblower Blew the Lid Off Wachovia-Drug Cartel Money Laundering Scheme | Drugs | AlterNet

 

[misconfig]

The War on some Drugs runs deep.

How about a half a trillion dollars in the US banking system. Hell, Wachovia runs their own planes full of blow from Central America.

American Banks 'High' On Drug Money: How a Whistleblower Blew the Lid Off Wachovia-Drug Cartel Money Laundering Scheme | Drugs | AlterNet

Yup, this is exactly why things are not legal; it's too lucrative.

Not to mention, this entire Mexican cartels with American guns after watching the documentary I posted above, this doesn't surprise me a bit to see BATF//DEA supplying arms to the cartels.

 

[orange]

I've long maintained that profits are the main reason the War on Drugs isn't going to end anytime soon. Police profit, various government agencies profit, the private prison industry, drug testing industry, pharmacological companies profit because superior medications are being kept illegal, and so on and so forth...
Until I read that article I didn't even think of profits to the banking industry. And that's the biggest lobbying group. Those guys OWN Washington. It's sad, really.

And this

That's precisely the point, how can the Government take this stance? Putting MJ in Schedule 1 so it's canaboids cannot be researched to find new cures for diseases and curing aliments.

extends to other drugs. LSD was made illegal in 1968. It's actually very effective against cluster headaches and a host of psychological issues. Right along with psilocybin and MDMA it's been proven therapeutic against PTSD, chronic depression and others. But because it's illegal research is almost impossible. And it's illegal because the government knows it's bad, and naturally, the government knows all and knows best, right?

 

[88GT]

DARE isn't effective. That's not the type of education I'm talking about. I mean education for high school and up. Education about addiction and recovery and the mental aspects of how it happens

I'm not saying wait until high school age for education. I think the scare tactics of some programs are a joke. I think teaching the dangers of addiction is an important issue. Everyone thinks it won't happen to me. I did. I'm now a recovering alcoholic. Education about the DEPENDENCE on a drug is what needs to be taught ...and the steps it takes to have a problem and progress into addiction. People need to understand that chemical changes occur in the brain when drugs are used and after a certain amount a person craves a drug or alcohol or tobacco, to feel normal

That's not what you said in your previous post. I'm not trying to argue, but I don't see how anybody is supposed to take what you said any differently than I did.

I think you're missing the point. Education already covers that and it doesn't work. Only the older kids will truly understand the mechanics of the cause-effect relationship, but by then they're already using. THe young ones who haven't made the choice yet can be told those things, but their understanding of how the body works isn't complex enough yet for them to comprehend anything other than "bad" consequences of a general nature.

There is no middle ground IMO. If you're going to leave the door open for recreational usage without placing limits (and I don't mean government imposed) on the age, then you should just get ready for lots of addicted drug users. The only other option is to preach abstinence to young children hoping they will put off the decision to use until it can be made with the full cognitive capability that comes with age to use responsibly. And in the meantime, continual "education" about the physiology and consequences of any use, abusive or not, with the goal of turing out rational decision-making skills the end.

I'm not holding my breath that it will happen, even if that's where all the effort was directed. Our society doesn't value responsibility. The 18 year olds coming out of high school exhibit roughly the same responsibility levels as 12y/o from 3 generations ago. Or less, if we're talking females.

We don't live in a society that promotes responsibility anymore. For anything. Until you change that, you can preach until you're blue in the face all the drug education you want--to any age group--and nothing will change. The free-for-all, hedonism associated with our cult of individuality is one of our biggest threats.

 

[Yukon227]

I agree. my post wasn't as clear as I thought. that being said I do think we would have the same goals of less use less addiction and fewer people in prisons for drug offenses....but it is going to be a major undertaking to see any improvement.

 

[NYFelon]

I agree with this stance 100%, don't tell them we have a big and scary drugs out there that millions of people use but it will make you go "crazy" if you use.

What we need to do is teach people moderation and how to properly enjoy these little things we has humans enjoy from time to time. Just because cigs and alcoholic are LEGAL doesn't make it OK.

I've heard time and time again woman saying "If a guy does drugs like pot, it's a turn off and I would never date someone like that". Whilst they're getting hammered at a club and acting like a total slut.

Too many people think legality is a fancy way of saying "Oh it's OK to consume copious amounts".

The fact of the matter is this: fighting 'moral dilemmas' through means of government law is not healthy for our society, or the world in general.

No to mention the negative unintended consequences of this approach. A single example would be the DARE and just say no campaigns. And those idiotic commercials with the fried egg comparison to yoru brain. You drive all this nonsense into a kid's head from early in life, over and over. Finally the kid is 15, or 16 or however old he happens to be. He decides, "Screw it, just once I'm gonna take a toke of that steamer." He smokes, coughs, smokes again. All of a sudden things are a little bit funny. He has an insatiable desire for cheetos. At no time do thoughts of suicide, murderous rampages, or raping and pillaging the feminines at the party cross his mind.

Now this kid has an epiphany. "They've been lying to me about this stuff for years. I wonder what else they have lied about?"

It's the same analogy as hiding the guns away, and keeping them locked up. "Now Jimmy, you stay away from Daddy's mystery closet of death while I'm not home.". Little Jimmy's first reaction when the car pulls out of the driveway? Get into the mystery closet. Instead of actually EDUCATING, we use fear tactics to induce a desired behavior. When I was young, my Pop introduced me to his firearms collection early. I knew what they were, where they were, and most of all, that they were dangerous items which I should not access without adult supervision. But, when that adult supervision was present, I was allowed to use them, learned to clean them, and every other facet of their proper care and keeping. I never accidentally shot myself or one of my friends trying to show them my "Daddy's secret".

Point being proper education beats fear and smear tactics everytime as a means for prevention.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

DARE isn't effective. That's not the type of education I'm talking about. I mean education for high school and up. Education about addiction and recovery and the mental aspects of how it happens

But...D.A.R.E. taught me in 5th grade that drugs 're ba'ad, Mmmmkay?

Seriously though...people will self-destruct with guns, cars, drugs, food, relationships, etc. We don't need the government to pick & choose which ones are legal or illegal. How much control do some of you want to hand over to the Nanny?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMIgT_NGgek

"I don't want to use heroine, so I need these laws."

 

[Yukon227]

The fact of the matter is this: fighting 'moral dilemmas' through means of government law is not healthy for our society, or the world in general.

This