Rainier Match 1:8 Barrel

[WyldeShot]

I am ready to start working up a loads for my AR that has a Rainier Match 18" 1:8 .223 Wylde barrel. I shot some factory ammo through it including V-Max 55 gr, Fusion 62 gr and Winchester Match 69 gr at 100 yards. I got the best groups out the 62 gr Fusion. I am looking to work up a good round for it though. I am looking at Barnes Target 69 gr, Sierra MatchKing 69 and 77 gr. A local guy that is known to be a good shooter recommended moving up to the 70+ gr bullets.

I was wondering if anyone else has experience with this barrel or similar and what bullet worked for you? I will be using Varget.

Thanks!

 

[philbert001]

1:8 should like just about everything, but since you tested it with various ammo, and it liked the mid weight ammo best, I'm curious why you wanna go so heavy with it? If you are bound and determined to go over 70gr, you probably should have gotten the 1:7!

 

[WyldeShot]

1:8 should like just about everything, but since you tested it with various ammo, and it liked the mid weight ammo best, I'm curious why you wanna go so heavy with it? If you are bound and determined to go over 70gr, you probably should have gotten the 1:7!

Really the only reason why I am looking at the heavier 70+ weight is because of recommendations. I believe the heavier bullet will give me more energy at longer distances. I have a 1:7 on my other rifle.

 

[philbert001]

As long as 1:8 will spin it up enough to stabilize, it will definitely have more energy at range. More ammo trials! I'd guess just find the heaviest bullet that the barrel will stabilize, and find the best load from there!

 

[BE Mike]

I have shot my Rock River with 1:8 twist barrel out to 500 yards. It seems to like the heavier 75 gr. BTHP bullets at the longer distances. I've used Varget and Reloder 15 with good results. Of course you need to prep your brass.

 

[WyldeShot]

Thanks. My plan is to load 4 different types of bullets. I'll be prepping my brass in the same way. I will probably load 6-12 round of each bullet.

 

[Electronrider]

Most service rifle people use a 1 in 8 twist barrel. We tend to shoot the heavier projectiles. I am running nosler 77gr bthp over 24.0 gr of varget for now, and it shoots good. The three projectiles you have listed will work just fine. Work up your loads and give it a go!

 

[sloughfoot]

Loads for 1X8 match grade barrels with a wylde chamber have been standardized by thousands of high power competitors as the max listed charge of Varget or other appropriate powders.

Load devolopment is a total waste of time for the AR15. Trigger time with max loads behind the 69, 75, 77, or 80 grain bullets is far more important than angst over the powder charge.

The bullet manufacturer and brass prep doesn't matter either. You need as much bullet speed as you can get for the pipsqueak cartridge to minimize flight time.

 

[BE Mike]

Loads for 1X8 match grade barrels with a wylde chamber have been standardized by thousands of high power competitors as the max listed charge of Varget or other appropriate powders.

Load devolopment is a total waste of time for the AR15. Trigger time with max loads behind the 69, 75, 77, or 80 grain bullets is far more important than angst over the powder charge.

The bullet manufacturer and brass prep doesn't matter either. You need as much bullet speed as you can get for the pipsqueak cartridge to minimize flight time.

Don't you think that the brass should be trimmed?

 

[sloughfoot]

Don't you think that the brass should be trimmed?

It does not hurt to trim brass. However, I have not trimmed a piece of .223 brass in years. Primer pocket uniforming and flash hole chamfering don't do anything either. Except enrichen those who sell the tools to do the work.

My brass does not grow during the 15 to 20 reloads I get out of each piece. If the length of the brass is good for a new factory cartridge, it will be good in my reloads.

I know, I am a heretic spoiling all the fun.

The only thing I do for my 600 yard ammo is to weigh the unprepped brass so that I have lots of brass by weight. That matters.

I like to use brass that weighs 94.5 grains for my 600 yard ammo. For the shorter yard lines, it doesn't matter.

 

[Leo]

To back up sloughfoot, I kind of trim brass for 200 and 300 yards. That is; I set my dial calipers to 1.760". When I am depriming/sizing the brass, any that drop through the jaws are good to go. They may be 1.745 or 1.759, but I run them at that length. If they are over 1.760" I will trim them. You will be surprised at how few I trim out of 1000 pieces. To simplify my life all I shoot in matches anymore is 77 Match BTHP bullets that I order 2000 at a time, unless I shoot true 600 yards and then I will break out the 80 grain bullets. All of my barrels are 1 in 8 twist.

For 500/600 yards I size, trim and weigh. I generally do not care how much the weigh, as long as they are close to the same. I do not think it matters at 200-300 yards.


I also load to near max velocity. I do not load to full max due to one of my rifles has a slightly tight bore (non chrome lined) and I get pressure signs pretty fast. The barrel still shoots great so I will just give up 1/2 a grain until it gets worn out

 

[sloughfoot]

And of course, this is all about the huge 5.56 military chamber and the Wylde chamber. True .223 commercial chambers require attention to OAL of the brass neck.

 

[SmileDocHill]

OK, I'll bite. What bearing can variability in the weight of brass have on accuracy?

 

[Leo]

OK, I'll bite. What bearing can variability in the weight of brass have on accuracy?

When a case that is properly sized and trimmed is lighter, there is more interior room in the case and you will have slightly less pressure, thus less velocity. Inversely, a heavy case will be slightly thicker and have more pressure for more velocity. This can be seen over a chronograph as a batch of ammo with a far wider extreme spread. That change in velocity is not much issue at 200 or three hundred yards, but by 500 or 600 yards, it may cost you a point with a low or high shot. Shooting a 6 inch bullseye at 600 yards with an iron sighted rifle with no artificial support is already difficult enough. If you are shooting in master or high master classification, an entire 800 point match can be won or lost over 1 point.

Keeping all the same brass in segregated lots really does not help much. There is as much variation in a single production lot of brass as there is between different brands. You really need to sort by weight.

 

[sloughfoot]

When a case that is properly sized and trimmed is lighter, there is more interior room in the case and you will have slightly less pressure, thus less velocity. Inversely, a heavy case will be slightly thicker and have more pressure for more velocity. This can be seen over a chronograph as a batch of ammo with a far wider extreme spread. That change in velocity is not much issue at 200 or three hundred yards, but by 500 or 600 yards, it may cost you a point with a low or high shot. Shooting a 6 inch bullseye at 600 yards with an iron sighted rifle with no artificial support is already difficult enough. If you are shooting in master or high master classification, an entire 800 point match can be won or lost over 1 point.

Keeping all the same brass in segregated lots really does not help much. There is as much variation in a single production lot of brass as there is between different brands.

Very well said. Weight of brass is directly related to internal capacity and pressure of the assembled round. I don't care about headstamp, only weight for my brass for the 600 yard line. (secretly, I also do it for the 300 yard line only because it gives me confidence in my ammo)

I say 94.5 grains only because it seems the majority of brass is pretty close to this. But there are wildly divergent exceptions. And those exceptions will cause elevation deviations out of the 10 ring.

I am only a Master in highpower.

 

[WyldeShot]

Thank you all for your input! Looks like I have some stuff to try.

 

[BE Mike]

Very well said. Weight of brass is directly related to internal capacity and pressure of the assembled round. I don't care about headstamp, only weight for my brass for the 600 yard line. (secretly, I also do it for the 300 yard line only because it gives me confidence in my ammo)

I say 94.5 grains only because it seems the majority of brass is pretty close to this. But there are wildly divergent exceptions. And those exceptions will cause elevation deviations out of the 10 ring.

I am only a Master in highpower.

When sorting your brass by weight, what tolerance are you accepting?

 

[Leo]

I go +/- two tenths of a grain. Since the 600 yard event is only 22 rounds, it is pretty easy to find enough that are right on.

 

[sloughfoot]

I sort into plastic buckets in half grain increments. The buckets range from 93 to 97 grains. Then another bucket for less than 92.5 grains and another bucket for more than 97.5 grains.

A piece of brass that weighs 94.3 grains and a piece that weighs 94.7 grains all go into the 94.5 grain bucket.

 

[SmileDocHill]

I'm fascinated that the standard deviation on all the other aspects of the brass are so tight that the range in weightcan be so directly correlated with the volume within the brass. without the benefit of experience like you guys, if i weighed a pile of brass I would have assumed the variation was more attributed to things like the brass alloy porosity, quality, maybe even variations in the density of material in the thicker base part.

Interesting. this accounts for what I learned from INGO today.