Quick question about OC

[IndyMonkey]

Just tell him your scared there are midgets around.

More than one tall person has been attacked because of our ability to have full flexibility in our knees by midgets.

 

[lovemachine]

More than one tall person has been attacked because of our ability to have full flexibility in our knees by midgets.

 

[whitegt5.0]

OK OK his question is answered, now it's MY TURN.

What if you are in....say a department store or something, and they have a little sign that says no weapons. Well the red-blooded Constitution supporting American you are, you decided to OC today. A cop comes up and says," No guns allowed, you have to leave". To which you ask if someone complained, and he says no, but there is a sign.

Do you still have to leave?

I would think a gun constitutes a weapon so I would say leave. They said they didn't want weapons in the store.

 

[SedahDrol]

OK OK his question is answered, now it's MY TURN.

What if you are in....say a department store or something, and they have a little sign that says no weapons. Well the red-blooded Constitution supporting American you are, you decided to OC today. A cop comes up and says," No guns allowed, you have to leave". To which you ask if someone complained, and he says no, but there is a sign.

Do you still have to leave?

You would have to leave only if the police officer is an agent of the store. IE working for the store a security guard, perhaps even a regular employee, or even acting as the messenger cuz the manager is pissing his pants in the office. Only the owner/agent can trespass you. Signs have no standing they are merely informational, politely letting you know in advance that you could be asked to leave for those reasons.

Of course even if the police officer isn't an acting as an agent he could still arrest you for tresspassing, but the charges wouldn't stick. Remember it doesn't matter if the arrest is lawful or not, you must still comply.

 

[Sgt Rock]

I agree. Either OC or CC, not in-between. I CC and have NEVER had an issue. I either match the gun to the clothes or the clothes to the gun. No prints, they draw attention. Just one man's opinion.

 

[JoshuaW]

I would think a gun constitutes a weapon so I would say leave. They said they didn't want weapons in the store.

Signs requesting no weapons carry no weight in Indiana. If you followed signs, you couldnt go to a vast number of "corporate" stores.

Personally, it would depend on what kind of a mood I am in. If I am in a more bold mood, I would ask the officer on what authority. HE cant ask me to leave, but if an employee or "agent" of the store has asked him to communicate the message, then I would leave. If he is going by the sign, I might try to inform him that it requires an actual person that is working for the store to ask me to leave, not a sign.

 

[whitegt5.0]

I will remember that signs carry no weight next time a see a no trespassing sign... Same idea. It's ok because somebody didn't tell me a sign did? Asking for trouble I say. If they don't want weapons in thier store don't take weapons in the store its their property. I don't want you hunting on my property either way a sign should be enough I shouldn't have to remove you.

 

[Indy317]

Signs carry no weight in Indiana.

This is your legal opinion, or do you have a court ruling? The Indiana code specifically talks about signs carrying weight. To what effect and how much, I don't think it has ever been determined in terms of a "Any person carrying a firearm may not enter this property."

 

[ATM]

I will remember that signs carry no weight next time a see a no trespassing sign... Same idea. It's ok because somebody didn't tell me a sign did? Asking for trouble I say. If they don't want weapons in thier store don't take weapons in the store its their property. I don't want you hunting on my property either way a sign should be enough I shouldn't have to remove you.

Just don't invite the public to come shop on your personal property and then install signs prohibiting the carry of certain items expecting that to make it illegal.

 

[whitegt5.0]

It means your not invited if you have a weapon. Sounds like trespass to me.

 

[esrice]

It means your not invited if you have a weapon. Sounds like trespass to me.

In some states, the mere presence of the sign is enough to have you arrested if you're found carrying a weapon.

In Indiana this is not so, and you must disobey a verbal trespasses to be arrested (and even then the charge is 'trespass', not 'carrying a weapon').

 

[woundedyak]

I've dealt with this a few times. I work for a high end small Ma and Pop store that has a high volume of cash on hand at times. I have a few Women employee's and mostly customers that are in there late 40's to early 50's. When someone walks in OC it freaks them out. They are not comfortable around firearms like you and I. They can careless about your 2nd amendment rights. They only see a firearm in a negative way. I then half to approach the OC and tell him I respect his right to OC, but could you please CC! You are making my customers and employee's nervous. 9 out of 10 the OC is understanding and more then willing to CC, but there is always that one guy. So I give him a little lecture how he is giving all OC supporters a bad name by acting like a DH. Then I ask him to leave.

 

[ATM]

So covering with cloth stops the freak out? Does that make sense to anyone?

I'd likely just set my stuff down and leave that silly place.

 

[sj kahr k40]

I've dealt with this a few times. I work for a high end small Ma and Pop store that has a high volume of cash on hand at times. I have a few Women employee's and mostly customers that are in there late 40's to early 50's. When someone walks in OC it freaks them out. They are not comfortable around firearms like you and I. They can careless about your 2nd amendment rights. They only see a firearm in a negative way. I then half to approach the OC and tell him I respect his right to OC, but could you please CC! You are making my customers and employee's nervous. 9 out of 10 the OC is understanding and more then willing to CC, but there is always that one guy. So I give him a little lecture how he is giving all OC supporters a bad name by acting like a DH. Then I ask him to leave.

Tell your employees that it's legal and to shut up and do their jobs, explain to the other customers that it's legal and as long as it's legal you will allow it.

 

[jbombelli]

This is your legal opinion, or do you have a court ruling? The Indiana code specifically talks about signs carrying weight. To what effect and how much, I don't think it has ever been determined in terms of a "Any person carrying a firearm may not enter this property."

MY ATTORNEY agrees with the previous opinion regarding signage. A NO GUNS sign does not mean the same as a NO TRESPASSING sign.

Keep in mind, they can ask you to leave for any reason they want, at any time, anyway, and you'd still be subject to the same trespass charge if you refuse. The weapon has nothing to do with the trespass charge. It may be the reason someone is asked to leave a location, but it's NOT the reason for the charge. They can just as easily say "your shoes are dirty, you have to leave" and it would amount to exactly the same thing if you don't. Same charge, same reason for the charge.


At least that's my understanding of the situation based on talks with my attorney.

 

[whitegt5.0]

As I typed a rebuttal I remembered arguing on the Internet is like a hot girl with aids..... I agree to disagree.

 

[jbombelli]

As I typed a rebuttal I remembered arguing on the Internet is like a hot girl with aids..... I agree to disagree.

Be that as it may.

Have you graduated law school, and are you a criminal defense attorney? If not, my attorney most likely knows more than you do in this area. He says it's NOT trespassing UNTIL they ask you to LEAVE and you REFUSE. "NO GUNS" is not the same as "NO TRESPASSING."

But hey, you're free to believe whatever you want.

 

[whitegt5.0]

Don't hold me to this but I think you have aids now...

 

[whitegt5.0]

 

[GPD177]

I am not an attorney, but I pretty well "speak the language" well enough to get around. You CAN NOT be arrested for carrying a firearm into an establishment that post a "NO GUNS" sign. There is no Indiana Code for that charge/offense. If asked to leave, and you refuse, you will be arrested for criminal trespass. I have had that discussion a couple of times with gun owners and it just pisses me off as a fellow 2nd supporter that people just dont get it. I am so tired of hearing about "he violated by constitutional rights". Memo....another citizen cannot violate your constitutional rights, only the government can.