Question about bad neighbors and our apartment lease

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  • Caleb

    Making whiskey, one batch at a time!
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    Ok, to keep this short and sweet...my wife, 3 children, and I are renting a fairly nice lower income apartment in Nashville. Most of the Neighbors we do not have any problems with(minus a long standing parking spot issue and this issue I'm going to ask about), the complex is well lit, and our rent is the cheapest in a fairly large area...no, it's not Section 8 housing or HUD.

    We like it very much except one problem we've been having since early fall...actually, two problems.

    1) earlier this year, the apartment above us developed a leak from the drain from the furnace above our laundry room. It's been leaking a while, so they cut two holes in our ceiling(above washing machine and dryer in laundry room, one in kitchen utility closet) and pointed a fan to blow air to dry it out. Fast forwards a couple of months, only one hole was patched and the other in the kitchen is wide open. The maintenance person is taking her old sweet time in fixing the hole. (To her defense, she also taken on the role of part time management because they can't seem to keep a manager around)

    2) Problem number two, since earlier this past fall, we have began to smell cigarette smoke in our apartment. Some in the kitchen area, but a bunch back in the master bath. We made a complaint to the office and this part time manager went to talked to the people above us(they only smoke outside) and the person behind us(guy says he only smokes outside, the woman says she used to smoke inside and outside but been trying to "quit", and the son is too young to smoke). After a couple months of management not doing anything, my wife and I are tired of smelling somebody else's air pollution(If you want to smoke, go ahead and smoke your lungs out...but we do not want to breath in your crap).

    We are thinking about packing up and moving, however we still have a lease until Sept or Oct. I want to know what are the landlord's responsibility to fix this problem(problems) and is there any way to get out of our lease due to lack of management taking care of the problems listed above.

    I do recall smoking inside the apartment is prohibited, but management seems to bend the rules for certain people.

    In a side note, anybody know of houses for rent?
     

    long coat

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    Are you coming home one at home) and smelling the smoke? When I had my appt. I came home and could smell smoke inside, they tried to say someone must have been smoking outside. They were not happy when I told them that I have had people over that smoke, they would go out to smoke, but you could not smell it inside.

    I think it was the maintenance man or someone else with a key that had be in side. I made them change the locks, but if it was maintenance they would still have a key.
     

    Caleb

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    Are you coming home one at home) and smelling the smoke? When I had my appt. I came home and could smell smoke inside, they tried to say someone must have been smoking outside. They were not happy when I told them that I have had people over that smoke, they would go out to smoke, but you could not smell it inside.

    I think it was the maintenance man or someone else with a key that had be in side. I made them change the locks, but if it was maintenance they would still have a key.

    It usually happen after the office closed up for the day...my wife is home almost all day, every day. I do not understand how it can get from one apartment and into mine. It shouldn't do that!
     

    Cpl. Klinger

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    IANAL, but in most states there exists the right or repair and deduct. If they aren't fixing something, you can fix it yourself or have someone else fix it, and deduct the cost of that repair from your rent. There is a process to it, and I would advise you to seek out the advice of someone knowledgable in that process. I never had to use it when I rented, but I knew of the existence of it.
     

    Dargasonus

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    Before we bought our house we lived in a Duplex with the neighbors who would smoke inside. The mystic smoke genies would somehow transfer the smoke into our home where we could smell it..still not sure how it was coming through. I doubt patching the hole will completely remove the problem, but good luck to you!
     

    Trigger Time

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    Document everything. Start sending the office certified and notarized letters with your greviences. In regards to the hole in your ceiling, they have a REASONABLE amount of time to fix it. I'd write a letter giving them 30 days to fix the hole or else STATE that you will repair the damage and be deducting your labor and costs from the next months rent.
    ive dealt with ****ty landlords in the past. Use their own game against them. But I will warn you that the system is designed to be in the landlords favor. Save save save and get a place you own. Until then you'll never truly be happy. Every place I ever rented even the higher end ones had their problems and most stemmed from neighbors. Even owning, be sure to do your homework on the neighbors around the property you are buying. Hiring a private investigator is a wise choice in considering the $100k+ investment your about to make.

    if you want to get out of the apartment, I'd have a lawyer go over your lease agreement and look for a breach of contract on their part that let's you out early. You'll save money and headaches in the long run.
    Id ask the management to let you out of the lease with no penalties first. If they say yes then get it in writing!
     

    88GT

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    IANAL!!!! I am a landlord. And have dealt with similar issues. I can only share my experiences.

    We are thinking about packing up and moving, however we still have a lease until Sept or Oct. I want to know what are the landlord's responsibility to fix this problem(problems) and is there any way to get out of our lease due to lack of management taking care of the problems listed above.
    First part of your question: landlord's responsibilities. Unless the lease specifically outlines additional responsibilities, you can find the statutory responsibilities in Indiana Code. It is my opinion that an unfinished patch is not something that has to be repaired unless there are consequences resulting from that unrepaired patch that do fall under the landlord's responsibilities.

    Second part of your question: early lease termination. Unless the lease specifically outlines a method for terminating the lease early, regardless of the reason, you have no statutory right to terminate it. Or let me be more specific. You have no statutory right to terminate without obligation/penalty. The landlord can still hold you responsible for the terms of the lease even after you vacate the premises.

    Indiana Code specifically outlines the remedy process tenants have for compelling the landlord to perform specific actions. Memo: it does NOT include not paying rent or defaulting on the lease in other manners.

    I do recall smoking inside the apartment is prohibited, but management seems to bend the rules for certain people.
    Smoke in apartment. It happens. Unless you can prove that the individuals are smoking inside in violation of lease terms, there's not much you can do. And even then, your remedy is judicial and my guess is you would likely have to show that you have been harmed by the smoke itself or the inequality of the application of the rules.

    IANAL, but in most states there exists the right or repair and deduct. If they aren't fixing something, you can fix it yourself or have someone else fix it, and deduct the cost of that repair from your rent. There is a process to it, and I would advise you to seek out the advice of someone knowledgable in that process. I never had to use it when I rented, but I knew of the existence of it.
    Indiana has no such language in the statutes. That said, when (if) the landlord took the tenant to court for non-payment of rent/eviction, the tenant could use the repair issue as a defense. It is up to the judge to decide whether the defense is justified or not. I have seen it go both ways equally. The take-home point is that there is no right of repair in IC. And it is not a settled matter in case law such that it is always a defense for the tenants.
     

    88GT

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    IC 32-31-8-6.

    No statutory right of deduction from rent. Though like I said, it would likely be a defense in the even the landlord sues for non-payment.

    Incidentally, IC32-31-8-5 outline the landlord's obligations. A hole in the ceiling doesn't look like it qualifies as a problem. It would be a cosmetic issue, unless there are consequences beyond just an unsightly hole in the ceiling.
     

    Caleb

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    IANAL!!!! I am a landlord. And have dealt with similar issues. I can only share my experiences.


    First part of your question: landlord's responsibilities. Unless the lease specifically outlines additional responsibilities, you can find the statutory responsibilities in Indiana Code. It is my opinion that an unfinished patch is not something that has to be repaired unless there are consequences resulting from that unrepaired patch that do fall under the landlord's responsibilities.

    Second part of your question: early lease termination. Unless the lease specifically outlines a method for terminating the lease early, regardless of the reason, you have no statutory right to terminate it. Or let me be more specific. You have no statutory right to terminate without obligation/penalty. The landlord can still hold you responsible for the terms of the lease even after you vacate the premises.

    Indiana Code specifically outlines the remedy process tenants have for compelling the landlord to perform specific actions. Memo: it does NOT include not paying rent or defaulting on the lease in other manners.


    Smoke in apartment. It happens. Unless you can prove that the individuals are smoking inside in violation of lease terms, there's not much you can do. And even then, your remedy is judicial and my guess is you would likely have to show that you have been harmed by the smoke itself or the inequality of the application of the rules.


    Indiana has no such language in the statutes. That said, when (if) the landlord took the tenant to court for non-payment of rent/eviction, the tenant could use the repair issue as a defense. It is up to the judge to decide whether the defense is justified or not. I have seen it go both ways equally. The take-home point is that there is no right of repair in IC. And it is not a settled matter in case law such that it is always a defense for the tenants.

    Sounds like tenants gets screwed in the end

    IC 32-31-8-6.

    No statutory right of deduction from rent. Though like I said, it would likely be a defense in the even the landlord sues for non-payment.

    Incidentally, IC32-31-8-5 outline the landlord's obligations. A hole in the ceiling doesn't look like it qualifies as a problem. It would be a cosmetic issue, unless there are consequences beyond just an unsightly hole in the ceiling.

    Unsightly, all my heat goes up through the hole, fiberglass falls from the space, possible bug infestation problem, etc.

    Mold is an entirely different matter. That **** is serious.

    Not blue, white, grey, or brown mold....doesn't look like green, looks more like black mold.
     

    88GT

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    Sounds like tenants gets screwed in the end
    you signed a contract. Don't you think you should be obligated to it? I fail to see how you are getting the screw here, other than you don't like your living situations.

    The law provides for a remedy. It's the same process a landlord has to go through. Why should the tenant be able to terminate the lease at will when the landlord can't?

    Unsightly, all my heat goes up through the hole, fiberglass falls from the space, possible bug infestation problem, etc.
    Unsightly is cosmetic. I doubt the heat loss is measurable, or the point of largest heat loss. Then cover it up if the fiberglass is causing a problem. A hole in your ceiling is NOT the source of a bug infestation, and the lack of one wouldn't keep bugs at bay anyway. You're reaching. Beyond looking at a hole in the ceiling, what harm has befallen you for not having the repair made? Actual harm.


    Not blue, white, grey, or brown mold....doesn't look like green, looks more like black mold.
    Curious what your plans are regarding this mold.
     

    Caleb

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    you signed a contract. Don't you think you should be obligated to it? I fail to see how you are getting the screw here, other than you don't like your living situations.

    The law provides for a remedy. It's the same process a landlord has to go through. Why should the tenant be able to terminate the lease at will when the landlord can't?


    Unsightly is cosmetic. I doubt the heat loss is measurable, or the point of largest heat loss. Then cover it up if the fiberglass is causing a problem. A hole in your ceiling is NOT the source of a bug infestation, and the lack of one wouldn't keep bugs at bay anyway. You're reaching. Beyond looking at a hole in the ceiling, what harm has befallen you for not having the repair made? Actual harm.



    Curious what your plans are regarding this mold.

    At the time I signed the lease, we had a real manager who gave a rats ass and got stuff done. We also had a maintenance guy who was top notch...timely and well mannered. If I had a problem, it was promptly taken care of no matter how big or how small the issue was.

    This new manager and maintenance person? I've had a hole in my ceiling since August. Despite calling about having it fixed, only one has been patched but not painted, and the other is a completely open hole. But you think I'm reaching.

    I'll have to look my least over, I'm almost certain that my lease details that issues are prompted to a timely repair. About the smoking, I really do not care if they "punish" whoever is smoking inside their apartment, but to sit there and expect me to have to smell that nasty **** just about every night when lease clearly prohibits smoking within.
     

    CitiusFortius

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    1) earlier this year, the apartment above us developed a leak from the drain from the furnace above our laundry room. It's been leaking a while, so they cut two holes in our ceiling(above washing machine and dryer in laundry room, one in kitchen utility closet) and pointed a fan to blow air to dry it out. Fast forwards a couple of months, only one hole was patched and the other in the kitchen is wide open. The maintenance person is taking her old sweet time in fixing the hole. (To her defense, she also taken on the role of part time management because they can't seem to keep a manager around)

    Yes, the landlord should fix it. However, if it's going to be awhile, you can just buy some white foam core and tack it up over the hole.

    Office Depot Brand Sturdy Board Foam Board 40 x 60 White by Office Depot

    To the smoke....if it's not smoke it'd be music, if it's not music it'd be revving cars, if it's not cars it'd be junk left outside their door....

    i've lived in 4 different appartments in my life, all of them had that one neighbor who bothered everyone else. Bought a house in '08 and I hope I never have to go back to appartment life. Good luck to you.
     

    spec4

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    i've lived in 4 different appartments in my life, all of them had that one neighbor who bothered everyone else. Bought a house in '08 and I hope I never have to go back to appartment life. Good luck to you.[/QUOTE]

    Getting your own house isn't a cure all unless you are on acreage. I live in a house in a nice neighborhood. A guy a few doors down has an old Camaro. Usually he fires it up on Sunday and revs the hell out of it. Very noisy. Then he shuts it down and a few minutes later repeats the process. I'm not a mechanic, but I believe he would be doing the car better, and sparing his neighbors, by taking it out for a spin. He also has a Packer flag on his garage door FWIW.
     

    GodFearinGunTotin

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    i've lived in 4 different appartments in my life, all of them had that one neighbor who bothered everyone else. Bought a house in '08 and I hope I never have to go back to appartment life. Good luck to you.

    Getting your own house isn't a cure all unless you are on acreage. I live in a house in a nice neighborhood. A guy a few doors down has an old Camaro. Usually he fires it up on Sunday and revs the hell out of it. Very noisy. Then he shuts it down and a few minutes later repeats the process. I'm not a mechanic, but I believe he would be doing the car better, and sparing his neighbors, by taking it out for a spin. He also has a Packer flag on his garage door FWIW.

    I live on an acreage. The problems with neighbors does seem to directly vary with their density but even with a few hundred feet between you and "them", there can still be problems--It only takes 1.
     
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