Pulled Over

[88GT]

The bad guy wasn't going to give up the location of his firearm anyway.

Officer: Do you have a firearm in the vehicle?
Bad Guy: Who me? Oh, naw. Too expensive. To buy and to keep fed.

 

[BE Mike]

The bad guy wasn't going to give up the location of his firearm anyway.

Officer: Do you have a firearm in the vehicle?
Bad Guy: Who me? Oh, naw. Too expensive. To buy and to keep fed.

I'm not so sure.
Officer: Do you have a firearm in the vehicle?
Convicted Felon: There is one over there, but it belongs to my friend, who left it in the car.

 

[88GT]

I'm not so sure.
Officer: Do you have a firearm in the vehicle?
Convicted Felon: There is one over there, but it belongs to my friend, who left it in the car.

You don't have to self-incriminate, ya know.

 

[KG1]

The whole point of the issue at hand and the point I was trying to make earlier in the thread is how far are you willing to go or how much are you willing to give up to "go along and get along" so that maybe you might just get a break for the infraction you've been pulled over for? Are you willing to submit to a search of the vehicle? or perhaps a search of your person?

Some of us in this thread find not only that objectionable but also an officer taking possession of our legally possessed personal property without RAS to be objectionable as well and wish to set the record straight by filing an objection with the PD in question.

Others in this thread seem to berate those that look to correct a situation they have every right to object to as frivolous.

Yes it is that important.

 

[Dirtebiker]

If you have an LTCH, the officer will know when he queries your license. If he asks you: "Do you have a firearm in the vehicle?", what is your answer?

My answer... "NOTHING ILLEGAL"!

 

[Dirtebiker]

A different view:

Any traffic stop where I don't end up in cuffs and neither of us get shot is a good stop. If I can get a $300 ticket reduced to a parking violation, I'm gonna do what the officer said. I am NOT gonna call his boss. I'm not gonna become a test case for the second or fourth amendment. I'm gonna do my best not to be on anyone's sh*t list in my community.
]"

Yeah, you're right. Let them walk all over you and your rights! No need to file a complaint.
Might as well invite the officer to your home to have a look around.

 

[Dirtebiker]

Well, to the OP I say:

Go with your gut. If you want to avoid conflict and spending more time on this situation, then let it go.

If you are the type of guy who is idealistic and doesn't like to see any error go unrecognized, then push this issue.

In my mind, Karma is against you. You started the chain of events. If you pursue this, these guys on INGO aren't going to be standing there with you if it goes sideways.

I will stand with him!

 

[BE Mike]

You don't have to self-incriminate, ya know.

Yes, I also know that some officers already know the answer to the questions they ask, before they ask them.

 

[Dirtebiker]

Because with most everything else I've seen so far here involving LEO's, this has been blown way out of proportion. IE, an officer here telling a person to file a formal complaint on another officer when he only has ONE side of the story after the officer was admittedly polite and gave the original poster a break with the ticket.

So it's ok for an officer to stomp on your rights, as long as he is polite?

 

[88GT]

Yes, I also know that some officers already know the answer to the questions they ask, before they ask them.

:doh: I think you missed me poking fun at you.

 

[inccwchris]

The officer broke the law, they cannot remove your personal property from you no matter what the reason.

 

[VUPDblue]

The officer broke the law, they cannot remove your personal property from you no matter what the reason.

You forgot to add "without probable cause, warrant, or reasonable and articulable concern for safety"

 

[Dirtebiker]

Yeah I know, pretty shamefull isn't it.

Shameful? No!
VUPDblue is an honorable officer!

 

[Dirtebiker]

You must be from the oooooooollllddddd school of copping. "just because that's how we've always done it" doesn't hold water anymore. I was a pretty stiff 2A supporter before I began my career in LE and the uniform I now wear won't change that. Some lines in the sand are blurry and some are not. The 4th amendment is pretty clear and is not one of those blurry lines in the sand. Common sense as well as the high courts have ruled that taking property from a person without reasonable and articulable cause is unlawful. Simply stating that you remove a weapon for "officer safety" when no articulable threat to the officer exists is not proper or lawful. Departments around the country are reshaping their policies to handle this exact issue. The first of the departments to implement these changes were seen as leaders and progressive. Now most departments are coming on-board and those that are not will eventually face consequences of that inaction. I would be more than happy to have a talk with the officer that the OP posted about. My suggestion for the OP to file a formal complaint was not to get the officer in hot water, but to light a fire under the department to get on-board with following the constitution. I don't care if the OP was honest and truthful about every detail of his encounter, but in making a suggestion about a course of action, his word is all I have to go on. Hell, the whole thing could be hypothetical. Makes no difference to me, my response is still the same. The officer's politeness has nothing to do with this at all, nor does his giving the OP a break on the citation. If I smile at you and make small talk while I kick you in the balls, I'm still kicking you in the balls. Seizing a firearm on a simple traffic stop where there is no reasonable and articulable concern that the person being stopped is a danger to the officer is illegal. Period. I disagreed with more than one FTO when I was in training about this issue and I didn't back down. Now my department has given us formal training that succinctly states that my opinion was the correct one. I stand behind my position on complaining about the incident but I will clarify the point that I believe the complaint should be about the department's incorrect policy, or lack of policy, on this situation.

I hope ISP "reshapes" their policy sometime soon!

 

[Dirtebiker]

I'm not sure why they take your gun, and assume that's the only one.

This point makes me chuckle. Because I usually have two with me.

When the ISP Trooper grabbed mine, I still had my BUG small of back, a range bag with another five or six handguns, AND a rifle right between the seats! (I assume he felt safer once he had the ONE he knew about!?)

 

[Dirtebiker]

I'm not sure why they take your gun, and assume that's the only one.

If you get mad enough to even think about shooting someone over getting pulled over when you know you're speeding, turning without a signal, or some other minor driving issue, you probably shouldn't own a firearm and you probably shouldn't be allowed to drive. I'd almost go as far as saying you should probably be institutionalized so you can get your severe emotional issues taken care of properly before you kill someone over some like bumping into on accident in the grocery store.

Or throwing popcorn on you!?

 

[Dirtebiker]

I'm not sure why they take your gun, and assume that's the only one.

The officer broke the law, they cannot remove your personal property from you no matter what the reason.

Sure they can!

 

[jbombelli]

we are NOT going there in this thread. I won't say it again.

I think he means biddness.

[video=youtube;1TMHq9d0TDM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TMHq9d0TDM[/video]

 

[2A_Tom]

Hindsight is 20/20. So after reading all of this, my answer is. Officer please return my property to the door pocket where you got it, now. And please call your supervisor.

 

[Okimeister]

Well first of all he shouldn't have made himself at home and opened the glove box, I'm assuming he was also taking a little peek to see what was in the glove box possibly looking for something illegal Illegal search and seizure warrentless search). He could have just as well given you the mags and ammo ( all seperated). Secondly he probably ran the serial number to see if the gun was stolen.
You might want to call Internal (without initially giving his name ) to see if everything he did was standard procedure. If they determine that it isn't they would as you his name and badge nuumber ( usually on the citation ). Then let them deal with it.
Sounds like he was looking for something illegal to get an arrest, but for the most part you did the correct things.
He apparently does these types of things on a regualr basis and just hasn't had his hand slapped for it yet!