Proposed Deer Rule Change Meeting Today

[Gunpowder]

It's been the stance of more than a few archery only hunters in the store. Many of them feel they own the woods, and have said outright they would like to see firearms season eliminated. Aren't overly fond of small game hunters like me, either. It's a short sighted viewpoint, but to pretend it's not out there is unrealistic.

Didn't say it isn't out there although I have never heard it. Just that there is no organized movement.

the problem with Indiana management is there is limited land available to hunters- fee or otherwise (especially no fee). Hunter numbers are decreasing on average, too many hunters are not harvesting does.

Record harvest in 2009 was BS. Even the local CO's felt they were cooking the books or counting depredation permits in the formula.

Happy squirrel/rabbit hunting!

 

[Gunpowder]

End rant... and an example of the viewpoint I was referencing.

I believe he was just offering a fun hobby to you. I introduced a friend to archery last year. This year he said he is never gun hunting this year because of the fun and challenge he experienced.

It isn't for everyone. But just as I purchased a muzzle loader last year to hunt with through that season and firearms for that new experience, I encourage anyone willing to take the time to develop their proficiency and wanting a more intimate hunting experience to give archery a try.

 

[Joe Williams]

Didn't say it isn't out there although I have never heard it. Just that there is no organized movement.

the problem with Indiana management is there is limited land available to hunters- fee or otherwise (especially no fee). Hunter numbers are decreasing on average, too many hunters are not harvesting does.

Record harvest in 2009 was BS. Even the local CO's felt they were cooking the books or counting depredation permits in the formula.

Happy squirrel/rabbit hunting!

I was amazed at the lack of public hunting lands here, at least around Crawfordsville, after we moved here An hours' drive, and the area seems small. Hoping to get to know some folks a little better and get some private land to hunt on, but I'd expected more hunting land. In PA, part of your license fees goes towards procurring and maintaining land, it's not like it's a handout, we paid for it. Not sure how license fees are used here, but land seems limited. With nowhere to hunt, it should be no surprise that hunter numbers are declining. Heck, even if we had to pay additional fees to hunt some land I'd be willing, but surely can't whip out $500 for a hunting lease. There, I lived in a suburb about 20 miles outside of Philly, and had a small state gameland right there in the middle of a bunch of towns. A lot of city folk got introduced to hunting and learned to love it because they could get out there and shoot squirrels and bunnies every day after work/school, and get a taste of the woods. Weekends, had a choice of lots of SGLs to hunt within an hours' drive. Here, out in the boonies, no public hunting land

 

[firehawk1]

I'm wondering if the pressure to mess with the what we have for seasons is coming from the car insurance company's...? Lots of deer get hit an maybe they are letting the DNR an others know they want the deer herd lowered...? I miss the old days long ago when you could get a license for around 5.95.....an could take 2 bucks during archery, or a buck during archery an one during gun....if the game in Indiana belongs to the people of Indiana, why do we have to spend so much $$ on tags.

Farm Bureau Insurance is a major player in this. Yes we/most miss the days when you were simply out there to hunt, not play wildlife management expert.

Silly person, don't you know the way to reduce the size of the deer herd in Indiana is to reduce the amount of time people can hunt? I can see you need to spend some time at the Ministry of Truth! 2+2=5

 

[firehawk1]

I was amazed at the lack of public hunting lands here, at least around Crawfordsville, after we moved here An hours' drive, and the area seems small. Hoping to get to know some folks a little better and get some private land to hunt on, but I'd expected more hunting land. In PA, part of your license fees goes towards procurring and maintaining land, it's not like it's a handout, we paid for it. Not sure how license fees are used here, but land seems limited. With nowhere to hunt, it should be no surprise that hunter numbers are declining. Heck, even if we had to pay additional fees to hunt some land I'd be willing, but surely can't whip out $500 for a hunting lease. There, I lived in a suburb about 20 miles outside of Philly, and had a small state gameland right there in the middle of a bunch of towns. A lot of city folk got introduced to hunting and learned to love it because they could get out there and shoot squirrels and bunnies every day after work/school, and get a taste of the woods. Weekends, had a choice of lots of SGLs to hunt within an hours' drive. Here, out in the boonies, no public hunting land

The Heritage Trust Fund uses monies collected from the enviormantal license plates to purchase public land.

I hunt just north of C'ville on my wife's grandfathers farm. I actually grew up there. I had a taste of what's coming several years ago on a REAL honey hole just south of C'ville. Hunted the woods 1 year, went back to ask the farmer the next year and he said he had leased it out for $2000. WAY too rich for my blood. But as I said this is what's coming with all this QDM/herd management crap.

 

[Gunpowder]

A lot of land also gets locked up by one hunter who may have several areas to hunt but uses only 1 or 2 sites.

Dad farms 2,000 acres. No leasing of hunting but plenty of trespassers besides the legitimate ones. growing up I knew the weekend before season. It was a revolving door of yahoos visiting the farm while we are trying to get work done trying to get permission.

One of his rented farm ground is leased to a hunter who is trophy hunting and taking no does. dad told the landlord have the guy take does or I will match his lease and get guys in there to do it myself. An hour away for me but if things get worse grounds wise around here I may just have to drive home to hunt there again.

 

[boman]

Farm Bureau Insurance is a major player in this

Incorrect

Indiana Farm Bureau - About Us

It is this farm bureau. No insurance co is a major player or "stakeholder".

DNR gets their deer collision data from accident reports filed by police agencies---I was told this by Chad Stewart.

You guys can go over to Hunting Indiana if you want the details on the process. click on the link below

HUNTING INDIANA - DNR Open House Meeting

Steve

 

[firehawk1]

Incorrect
It is this farm bureau. No insurance co is a major player or "stakeholder".

DNR gets their deer collision data from accident reports filed by police agencies---I was told this by Chad Stewart.

You guys can go over to Hunting Indiana if you want the details on the process. click on the link below Steve

While they might not be a "stakeholder" in this (I really have no idea what the term stakeholder means) the insurance companies are VERY involved in this. They don't like having to shell out the money fixing vehicles that have hit deer. I read several years ago that Farm Bureau Insurance was one of the MAJOR "forces" behind reducing the deer herd. That and Farm Bureau concerned with crop losses attributed to deer.

Back to the term stakeholder, I don't like the fact that it is presented that there are only a few stakeholders in this. We ALL are stakeholders in this. The deer herd belongs to all of us (the State). Not just IDHA, IBH, insurance companies, city councils, etc... IMO, DNR should be required to send out a ballot to ALL that have purchased deer tags, have lifetime license's, etc... EVERYONE should have a voice just as loud as a few "bigshots" that have and continue to claim they speak for the majority, which they DO NOT. DNR should then make their decision based on how the majority votes, not a few organizations, and their tactics.

 

[Gunpowder]

These organizations have membership throughout Indiana. Being an organized voice for sportsmen, they are obviously stakeholders. Everyone else has the opportunity to voice their opinion either in meeting or via letter. The rest apparently don't care. If they did they would voice their opinion via letter, attending an open house, or join one of the above groups that help lobby government and fight the anti's to protect their sport.

 

[IndianaSlim]

I was amazed at the lack of public hunting lands here, at least around Crawfordsville, after we moved here An hours' drive, and the area seems small. Hoping to get to know some folks a little better and get some private land to hunt on, but I'd expected more hunting land. In PA, part of your license fees goes towards procurring and maintaining land, it's not like it's a handout, we paid for it. Not sure how license fees are used here, but land seems limited. With nowhere to hunt, it should be no surprise that hunter numbers are declining. Heck, even if we had to pay additional fees to hunt some land I'd be willing, but surely can't whip out $500 for a hunting lease. There, I lived in a suburb about 20 miles outside of Philly, and had a small state gameland right there in the middle of a bunch of towns. A lot of city folk got introduced to hunting and learned to love it because they could get out there and shoot squirrels and bunnies every day after work/school, and get a taste of the woods. Weekends, had a choice of lots of SGLs to hunt within an hours' drive. Here, out in the boonies, no public hunting land

Joe, no offense, but if you were passionate about hunting you would quit complaining about the lack of public ground and go find some private ground to hunt. Yes, it does take effort but it's far from impossible. Buy a plat book for $20 and burn up the phone lines. I'm fortunate enough to have a good chunk of family ground to hunt on but you can bet your butt that in march I'm on the phone every day about new ground. 4 years ago I hunted the family farm of roughly 1,200 acres. Now, I have exclusive access to 15,000+ acres of prime whitetail habitat and I don't pay a DIME for any of it. I create and maintain awesome relationships with landowners, that's it. And as far as my rant on bowhunting, I'm not trying to eliminate gun hunting whatsoever I'm just sick of people making excuses about their "shortened seasons"

 

[blackoak]

While they might not be a "stakeholder" in this (I really have no idea what the term stakeholder means) the insurance companies are VERY involved in this. They don't like having to shell out the money fixing vehicles that have hit deer. I read several years ago that Farm Bureau Insurance was one of the MAJOR "forces" behind reducing the deer herd. That and Farm Bureau concerned with crop losses attributed to deer.

Back to the term stakeholder, I don't like the fact that it is presented that there are only a few stakeholders in this. We ALL are stakeholders in this. The deer herd belongs to all of us (the State). Not just IDHA, IBH, insurance companies, city councils, etc... IMO, DNR should be required to send out a ballot to ALL that have purchased deer tags, have lifetime license's, etc... EVERYONE should have a voice just as loud as a few "bigshots" that have and continue to claim they speak for the majority, which they DO NOT. DNR should then make their decision based on how the majority votes, not a few organizations, and their tactics.

Insurance companies are not loosing money do to deer accidents. They just raise the rates we have to pay.
If that was the case they would be trying to outlaw cell phones. I'm pretty sure they do more damage than deer do.

 

[bigmedicine]

Also, for the guys that are going to complain that they are losing time in the woods, GET A BOW, LEARN TO SHOOT IT, HAVE FUN WITH IT, and you can hunt from Oct 1-first week of January. End rant.

With all due respect, I don't enjoy shooting a bow and prefer to use a gun. It is no one's business what I use and resent the heck out of people assuming that I should be the one that has to change. I love my slug gun, PCR, and muzzleloader. People need to take the position of respect and tolerance, not one of driving change for change sake.

 

[boman]

ile they might not be a "stakeholder" in this (I really have no idea what the term stakeholder means) the insurance companies are VERY involved in this. They don't like having to shell out the money fixing vehicles that have hit deer. I read several years ago that Farm Bureau Insurance was one of the MAJOR "forces" behind reducing the deer herd.

I don't know where you read this but the following is a quote from the DNR.

We asked the DNR guy at Sugar Ridge(not Chad)if the insurance companys lobbied to have deer numbers reduced due to deer/car collisions.He told us that he was not aware of any insurance companys ever lobbying for a deer herd reduction.

Steve

 

[Gunpowder]

BTW: Stakeholder (corporate), a person, group, organization, or system who affects or can be affected by an organization's actions

• Project stakeholder, a person, group or organization with an interest in a project

--------------
Stakeholders are a segment of the population. the mentioned groups are a cross section of hunters throughout Indiana. Add the write-ins and meeting attenders and you have your stakeholders.

If you survey the NRA GOA, etc you are in effect surveying hundreds of thousands of stakeholders of gun owners. The same goes for IDHA, IBA, Crossbow lobby, etc.

 

[firehawk1]

The statement about stakeholders was kinda tongue and cheek. I'm fully aware what a stakeholder is. It is just in several threads about this issue no where was the average hunter mentioned as to being a stake holder, just the organizations.

As far as the average hunter having a voice, yes in a way they do, Problem is ALOT of these meetings do take place during the day, not all but alot. Joe Blow is at work trying to earn a living. While I have sent a "letter" thru e-mail about this in no way do I believe it can carry as much weight as say Joe Bacon and his bunch at IDHA. Joe prides himself about having access to legislators ears with all his "opinions" and whining. I have no such access. I left his group LONG AGO and several years later I was still getting newsletters. You know what that tells me, he was still using my name in claiming the amount of people that were for the one buck rule. He informed me I was a free loader. I told him it's not my responsibility to monitor his membership roster. He even threatened to sue me!

As I've stated before, IF this was about reducing the deer herd the smart move would be to LENGTHEN the firearm and muzzleloader season. Bow hunters already have from October 1st until Janurary, other than the "dead" week between firearm and muzzleloader season. I wonder what the bowhunters would be saying if DNR decided to lengthen the firearm seasons at the expense of the bowhunters? As I said it just depends on WHO'S ox is being gored.

FWIW, I am a bow hunter, enjoy the hell out of it. BUT the deer herd isn't mine, neither is the rut, and I DON'T feel I have the right to complain about the gun hunters making all the noise ruining MY hunting.

I can turn it around and say, if you want to hunt the rut, throw down your bow and grab a gun. Don't be so one dimensional. Don't complain I have an advantage over you simply because I choose to use a firearm at that time of the year.

 

[trophy hunter]

too many trophy hunters are not taking any deer in a given year meaning they are not part of the management process.


thats b.s. i`m a `trophyhunter` and i kill more deer in a yr. than most guys i know.. not braggin but i choose the buck i want to put my tag on,and not the first legal deer...
btw i don`t eat much beef,most of the meat i eat all yr. is deer..

 

[Jack Ryan]

The statement about stakeholders was kinda tongue and cheek. I'm fully aware what a stakeholder is. It is just in several threads about this issue no where was the average hunter mentioned as to being a stake holder, just the organizations.

As far as the average hunter having a voice, yes in a way they do, Problem is ALOT of these meetings do take place during the day, not all but alot. Joe Blow is at work trying to earn a living. While I have sent a "letter" thru e-mail about this in no way do I believe it can carry as much weight as say Joe Bacon and his bunch at IDHA. Joe prides himself about having access to legislators ears with all his "opinions" and whining. I have no such access. I left his group LONG AGO and several years later I was still getting newsletters. You know what that tells me, he was still using my name in claiming the amount of people that were for the one buck rule. He informed me I was a free loader. I told him it's not my responsibility to monitor his membership roster. He even threatened to sue me!

As I've stated before, IF this was about reducing the deer herd the smart move would be to LENGTHEN the firearm and muzzleloader season. Bow hunters already have from October 1st until Janurary, other than the "dead" week between firearm and muzzleloader season. I wonder what the bowhunters would be saying if DNR decided to lengthen the firearm seasons at the expense of the bowhunters? As I said it just depends on WHO'S ox is being gored.

FWIW, I am a bow hunter, enjoy the hell out of it. BUT the deer herd isn't mine, neither is the rut, and I DON'T feel I have the right to complain about the gun hunters making all the noise ruining MY hunting.

I can turn it around and say, if you want to hunt the rut, throw down your bow and grab a gun. Don't be so one dimensional. Don't complain I have an advantage over you simply because I choose to use a firearm at that time of the year.

DNR and the whole state law enforcement system doesn't have enough officers to enforce hunting laws if the Joe Blows of hunting get fed up with the rules constantly changeing to disenfranchise them from the sport they created.

When the law becomes a stick for one class to beat the money out of the majority, the majority will ignore the law. Hunting was destroyed by market hunting and hunting was restored by sportsman exercising self restraint and financially supporting it. Now "money grubbers" want to come in and squeeze every dime out of hunting if it kills the last game animal in Indiana. Hunters built it, hunters will tear it down.

I'm gonna hunt no matter what that pack of sleaze balls in Indianapolis do. If they make the laws too ridiculous to follow and still hunt..., well I'm gonna hunt.

To H11 with Joe Bacon and his "legislator hunting" and his pack of bar room lackeys grovelling around him. Send Woody Williams right along with them. None of them give a flying crap about hunting other than what it can do to help them get up on a soap box and scream "look at me". They are lobbiest, clubbers, whiners, camo clad lawyers and carpet baggers, they should all be put in the same acre pen with the shooting zoo operators and run around in circles while they take turns with poacher ted, and the rest of the celebrity shooting zoo patrons stick 'em with arrows for the camera.

 

[firehawk1]

DNR and the whole state law enforcement system doesn't have enough officers to enforce hunting laws if the Joe Blows of hunting get fed up with the rules constantly changeing to disenfranchise them from the sport they created.

When the law becomes a stick for one class to beat the money out of the majority, the majority will ignore the law. Hunting was destroyed by market hunting and hunting was restored by sportsman exercising self restraint and financially supporting it. Now "money grubbers" want to come in and squeeze every dime out of hunting if it kills the last game animal in Indiana. Hunters built it, hunters will tear it down.

I'm gonna hunt no matter what that pack of sleaze balls in Indianapolis do. If they make the laws too ridiculous to follow and still hunt..., well I'm gonna hunt.

To H11 with Joe Bacon and his "legislator hunting" and his pack of bar room lackeys grovelling around him. Send Woody Williams right along with them. None of them give a flying crap about hunting other than what it can do to help them get up on a soap box and scream "look at me". They are lobbiest, clubbers, whiners, camo clad lawyers and carpet baggers, they should all be put in the same acre pen with the shooting zoo operators and run around in circles while they take turns with poacher ted, and the rest of the celebrity shooting zoo patrons stick 'em with arrows for the camera.

WHAT HE SAID!

 

[Gunpowder]

too many trophy hunters are not taking any deer in a given year meaning they are not part of the management process.


thats b.s. i`m a `trophyhunter` and i kill more deer in a yr. than most guys i know.. not braggin but i choose the buck i want to put my tag on,and not the first legal deer...
btw i don`t eat much beef,most of the meat i eat all yr. is deer..

Kudos to your participation. Your in southern Indiana. I am referencing my area of northern Indiana where I actually surveyed the hunters in the immediate area I am. I took only 1 last year due to late corn harvest but took several the year before. Freezers getting pretty bare.

I am surprised we haven't heard about the north verses the south in this discussion since I usually hear hunters in the south indicate they aren't seeing deer. Here in the north the population is fairly high. too high in many places. Just right in a few others.

I am coming across more trophy hunters who don't take does though. Perhaps it is financial demographics of the area where they feel they don't "NEED" the meat.

I just don't get it though. Nothing like a "properly" dresses doe steak pounded out, rolled in sweet corn meal and flour, fried and on a bun

 

[boman]

You know what that tells me, he was still using my name in claiming the amount of people that were for the one buck rule. He informed me I was a free loader. I told him it's not my responsibility to monitor his membership roster. He even threatened to sue me!

sounds like something he would do---wonder how many members that organization has today?

Steve