Progressive or Liberal ?

[Birds Away]

I'm self employed and have funded my "retirement" since I was 50. Actually, I've funded my entire existence since I was 17.

My comment was more directed at someone who criticizes others for not making decisions for themselves. My view of the military is that almost no one makes decisions for themselves. They follow orders. At least we did when I was in the service.

What I find most amazing about this website is that there are a few who post regularly and they have very strong opinions. When someone disagrees with them, they act like a pack of wild dogs, pooping on their lawn, and then noisily barking and running off until the next comment comes along that they disagree with.

I'm old enough to know what "American Values" are, since I'm into my 7th decade on this planet. What you all have is: an opinion and ONE vote. You certainly have the right to speak your mind, but you must also recognize most people don't agree with you….at least not to the extent of calling their fellow Americans 'traitors' because they don't believe the things you do, or look like you, or have your education or wealth.

No. I think I understand America very well. And I thank God that most don't feel as you do.

I entered into an agreement with the government where if I completed a certain term of service I would receive a certain amount of benefits. I fulfilled that obligation and now, at least to some degree, they are fulfilling theirs.

I deleted the remainder of the post lest I be perma-banned.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

I'm self employed and have funded my "retirement" since I was 50. Actually, I've funded my entire existence since I was 17.

My comment was more directed at someone who criticizes others for not making decisions for themselves. My view of the military is that almost no one makes decisions for themselves. They follow orders. At least we did when I was in the service.

What I find most amazing about this website is that there are a few who post regularly and they have very strong opinions. When someone disagrees with them, they act like a pack of wild dogs, pooping on their lawn, and then noisily barking and running off until the next comment comes along that they disagree with.

I'm old enough to know what "American Values" are, since I'm into my 7th decade on this planet. What you all have is: an opinion and ONE vote. You certainly have the right to speak your mind, but you must also recognize most people don't agree with you….at least not to the extent of calling their fellow Americans 'traitors' because they don't believe the things you do, or look like you, or have your education or wealth.

No. I think I understand America very well. And I thank God that most don't feel as you do.

While I realize your remark wasn't particularly directed at me, I detect a hint of hypocrisy here. Harsh words aren't strange to this forum - ESPECIALLY THIS FORUM! - and I don't think you're any stranger to using harsh words when you feel them justified. Frankly, I'm not sure Birds Away's characterization of politicians, judges, and others who are deliberately moving this country away from its traditional values and are increasing their power personally and through the aspects of the federal government AREN'T being traitors to the oath they swore to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. You and Denny are perfectly welcome to disagree with him, but I disagree with you. I think it's a shame that most Americans don't agree with his sentiments. If they did, perhaps we wouldn't be in the mess we're experiencing today.

 

[Manatee]

I'm pretty well ashamed of my government, but I love my country. We've had terrible administrations since 1992. 20 years of incompetent leadership. And I don't hold much hope for 2016.

This isn't the America I knew as a kid and a teenager. There's more than twice as many people, a higher incidence of divorce, drug use, mediocre CEO's making millions and unnecessary wars. The list of ills is depressing. The country has changed and most of us believe not for the better.

But I don't blame poor people for my problems and I don't think social programs in and of themselves are inappropriate. We've always had predators in the mix and given half a chance, they'd enslave their lessers. The Sherman Act and Taft-Hartley weren't thought up as an intellectual exercise; Teddy R knew that the natural end state of capitalism is monopolies and oligarchies. We had child labor. We had hideous meatpacking practices. Drugs were unsafe.

So, to think that individual initiative and self-reliance is "enough for any man" and that social programs to protect the interests and health of the common man are "traitorous"? It sure appears the comment was not well thought out….just like I think a lot of the rugged individualism and bravado on these websites is so much bluster. People "SAY" things, but if we looked underneath their words, we'd find they aren't as self-reliant as they intimate and as one might suppose.

That's the hypocrisy.

 

[MisterChester]

I'm pretty well ashamed of my government, but I love my country. We've had terrible administrations since 1992. 20 years of incompetent leadership. And I don't hold much hope for 2016.

This isn't the America I knew as a kid and a teenager. There's more than twice as many people, a higher incidence of divorce, drug use, mediocre CEO's making millions and unnecessary wars. The list of ills is depressing. The country has changed and most of us believe not for the better.

But I don't blame poor people for my problems and I don't think social programs in and of themselves are inappropriate. We've always had predators in the mix and given half a chance, they'd enslave their lessers. The Sherman Act and Taft-Hartley weren't thought up as an intellectual exercise; Teddy R knew that the natural end state of capitalism is monopolies and oligarchies. We had child labor. We had hideous meatpacking practices. Drugs were unsafe.

So, to think that individual initiative and self-reliance is "enough for any man" and that social programs to protect the interests and health of the common man are "traitorous"? It sure appears the comment was not well thought out….just like I think a lot of the rugged individualism and bravado on these websites is so much bluster. People "SAY" things, but if we looked underneath their words, we'd find they aren't as self-reliant as they intimate and as one might suppose.

That's the hypocrisy.

+1

I am in my mid twenties, so I can't say that I remember much if my government pre-9/11. Front what I can remember however, we were much better off then than now. Bash Clinton all you want but we at least had good budgets at the time. In my teenage years we had the Bush administration, and my opinion of the government just kept eroding. I couldn't trust the republicans with the crap they did then (still don't), and then Obama came along, at that point I thought things might get better. How wrong was I. The past decade and a half has almost stripped me completely of looking at government in a positive light. Now I don't really trust anyone in politics.

 

[DragonGunner]

I'm late for the show...But didn't the Progressive Teddy say and believe that the Constitution was a out dated document that needed to be replaced.

This to me is the Progressive movement then and now. Its the belief some are wiser than our fore fathers and they didn't know crap how to write a Constitution, and we (progressives) are much smarter. So when I hear John McCain and Hillary say they are Progressives....they are saying we want to change or get rid of the thing we swore to protect. Bully

 

[JS1911]

Thats a pretty serious accusation.

But it is also a TRUTHFUL one. Of course, he seems to have struck a nerve with you.

 

[artesianjack]

I agree with rockhopper............and they all have fleas!

 

[JS1911]

So tell me Manatee, how is the gov. helping themselves to the money that I earned and using it to buy votes for themselves through ridiculously bloated and inefficient social programs "Protecting the interests and health of the common man?"

 

[Manatee]

Reading comprehension a bit off there JS? The government sucks but it ain't poor people running the government.

 

[MisterChester]

But it is also a TRUTHFUL one. Of course, he seems to have struck a nerve with you.

Not quite. I think labeling someone a "traitor" for having a different opinion from yours is exactly what the constitution is supposed to protect us from. You may sound like a complete idiot, be a circle jerk republican/democrat, and I probably won't like what you have to say but I do believe you have every right to say what you want to.

 

[printcraft]

Not quite. I think labeling someone a "traitor" for having a different opinion from yours is exactly what the constitution is supposed to protect us from. You may sound like a complete idiot, be a circle jerk republican/democrat, and I probably won't like what you have to say but I do believe you have every right to say what you want to.

Oh, yes, I agree with you. You have EVERY right to say whatever you want to.

I have a problem with it when you ACT on those words.

You want to take away my freedoms? You will have a fight on your hands.

 

[jamil]

So tell me Manatee, how is the gov. helping themselves to the money that I earned and using it to buy votes for themselves through ridiculously bloated and inefficient social programs "Protecting the interests and health of the common man?"

Reading comprehension a bit off there JS? The government sucks but it ain't poor people running the government.

I didn't think he blamed poor people. Sounded like he blamed the "progressive" office holders for buying votes by taking money from people who earned it and giving it to people who didn't just so those who didn't would perpetually need other people's money and thus stay loyal to "progressives".

Not quite. I think labeling someone a "traitor" for having a different opinion from yours is exactly what the constitution is supposed to protect us from. You may sound like a complete idiot, be a circle jerk republican/democrat, and I probably won't like what you have to say but I do believe you have every right to say what you want to.

I wouldn't characterize lefties as traitors. I would characterize a major faction of them as thieves and tyrants. They want to confiscate my resources to redistribute them, and confiscate my personal property when they think I shouldn't have it. But I could also characterize a faction of the right the same way.


As for the difference between liberal/progressive, not all lefties are the same just like not all conservatives are the same. Seems the "social justice" wing of the democrat party are the ones who most like to label themselves as "progressives". They're the ones who push feminism, socialism, equal outcome, no armed citizens, and all the "progressive" what's-mine-is-everyone's bull****. MisterChester, you don't strike me as that type of left-leaner. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you do, my opinion of you would surely suffer. Not that it should matter to you.

 

[Birds Away]

I owe everyone an apology. I over-stated my case, through frustration, and put a label on a broad group of folks. It is inaccurate and undeserved. Most of the people who call themselves liberal are not traitors. They mean well they just don't seem to understand human nature very well. Anyway, I support social programs that support the poor, the elderly and the disabled. These are absolutely essential in any country and I would not support anyone who wanted to do away with them. The problem, as I see it, is the waste and abuse. I get very frustrated when the liberals want to keep expanding these programs and throwing good money after bad when they, like everyone else, can't help but see how much is wasted. So continuing to take money from me for a necessary program is fine. But, if you refuse to take steps to curb the waste and fraud and simply keep coming back to the trough for more and more then I get a little upset. If your programs, well intended as they are, are full of waste and abuse then why is it expecting too much to have you put in some effort to eliminate as much of this as possible before you come asking for more. The reason they don't is what makes me label them as traitors. They won't take it away from someone who doesn't deserve it because it might cost them some votes and, after all, this is what these programs have become. They are just a means of generating votes. That is where I have the problem. It would seem the career politicians on that side of the coin are being completely disingenuous. Fix the program and you have my continued support. Continuing to throw money down a pit just to pave your own political road...is criminal in my opinion. Also, I get upset with the liberal politicians for their lies. I know that is not the only side guilty of this. Believe me, Republicans are just as guilty and just as self-serving. I don't have a problem with most liberal voters. They just need to crack a history book. They aren't criminals, they just ought to know better.