Post-41F filing

[M67]

Trusts only have to submit fingerprint/photo once ever 24 months as long as the trust hasn't been modified.

Here's what the link says

Q.
Will fingerprint
cards and photographs be needed for each person(s) identified as a “Responsible Person?”

A.
Yes. All individuals identified as “
Responsible Persons” are required to submit fingerprint cards and photographs. In addition, each “Responsible Person” is required to complete the Form 5320.23,
National Firearms Act (NFA) Responsible Person Questionnaire. (See instruction 2 d. (5) on the Forms 1, 4, and 5.) Fingerprint cards and the Form 5320.23 with photograph
attached must be provided upon every application submission.

Q.
If an application was approved within the preceding 24 months, are fingerprintcards and photographs required to be submitted with a new application?

A.
Yes. The 24-month exemption for providing supporting “documentation”refers only to the documentation proving the existence of an entity, such as trusts or corporate paperwork. The Form 5320.23 with attached photograph and fingerprint cards are required for each person identified as a responsible person for each submission in order to initiate the required background check. See instruction 2 d. (4) and (5) on the Forms 1, 4, and 5.

 

[Gluemanz28]

Here's what the link says

My trust is looking better and better.

Thanks for posting.

 

[Woobie]

My trust is looking better and better.

Thanks for posting.

Actually it takes away some of the benefit of the trust. Now I have to drag all my responsible persons in every time I want to play the NFA game.

But the real reason I got the trust is still valid. So all is good.

 

[M67]

My trust is looking better and better.

Thanks for posting.

I'm thinking about getting a second trust, I remember someone here (maybe you actually) saying that on their trust they're the only "responsible person" on it. Curious if that's even possible or if beneficiaries are considered responsible people, which under some wording, I can see that they would be.

Everyone on my trust is a proper person, but it's a PITA

 

[ACC]

I talked to Grant Liston, attorney who did my trust, about amending it to have me be the only responsible person so I did not have to drag my wife in for fingerprints and photos every time I wanted a new NFA item. He HIGHLY advised against it for this reason. Should I pass away and my NFA items need to be transferred to my beneficiaries, there would be no other responsible person who would be able to transport/possess my NFA items. Just sharing my experience in this matter.

 

[Woobie]

I talked to Grant Liston, attorney who did my trust, about amending it to have me be the only responsible person so I did not have to drag my wife in for fingerprints and photos every time I wanted a new NFA item. He HIGHLY advised against it for this reason. Should I pass away and my NFA items need to be transferred to my beneficiaries, there would be no other responsible person who would be able to transport/possess my NFA items. Just sharing my experience in this matter.

Yeah, if you're removing everyone from your trust you're effectively cutting off your nose to spite your face. The whole purpose of the trust is for custody. The convenience it used to bring was a happy byproduct. Now the rules with and without a trust are essentially the same. So if you don't want to mess with dragging in your trustees, and you don't care about custody (which you don't if you have a 1 man trust) then file as an individual.

Grant did my trust too. Highly recommend him. Service after the sale is worth the premium you pay over a $99 online special.

 

[M67]

New form 4s are out

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/f...-registration-firearm-atf-form-53204/download

And form 1

https://www.atf.gov/file/11281/download

 

[dudley0]

I talked to Grant Liston, attorney who did my trust, about amending it to have me be the only responsible person so I did not have to drag my wife in for fingerprints and photos every time I wanted a new NFA item. He HIGHLY advised against it for this reason. Should I pass away and my NFA items need to be transferred to my beneficiaries, there would be no other responsible person who would be able to transport/possess my NFA items. Just sharing my experience in this matter.

I just talked to Grant as well. I added that I wanted to know if I could just remove the people and buy, then add them back after the Form whatever was approved. Seems his take on it is kind of like poking the bear. It should work, but that is taking a chance on pissing them off and causing more headache down the road.

I will be getting my people to get their pictures taken and start looking for fingerprint cards of whatever I need. Still don't like having to report it to LEO because of loose lips and all that.

Now I can take my time before my next form.

 

[Bfish]

I don't know if anyone saw, but SilencerCo has something on their website that walks you through what you need. It's got an option for if you are filing as an individual or with a trust.

 

[Woobie]

I just talked to Grant as well. I added that I wanted to know if I could just remove the people and buy, then add them back after the Form whatever was approved. Seems his take on it is kind of like poking the bear. It should work, but that is taking a chance on pissing them off and causing more headache down the road.

I will be getting my people to get their pictures taken and start looking for fingerprint cards of whatever I need. Still don't like having to report it to LEO because of loose lips and all that.

Now I can take my time before my next form.

Yeah, that would seem to be obviously avoiding the regulation. And apparently we are a country of regulations, not laws. But I digress. It would be hard to prove if the ATF only ever had the copy with you on it, but I still wouldn't play that game. Too much to lose.

 

[dudley0]

Plus, in my case, they already have the original.

Just wish there was a way to avoid the CLEO notification.

Anyhow, I am going to get the pictures hopefully before the end of next week. Then I will look into what needs to happen about the print cards.

 

[M67]

Just wish there was a way to avoid the CLEO notification.

What happens when the mail looses the paperwork and the CLEO never receives notification?

 

[Ericpwp]

Registered mail I'm assuming would be the best way.

Is there a way to legally make a document confidential? A way to state the information included is for x use and x use only by x person?

 

[jag09]

What happens when the mail looses the paperwork and the CLEO never receives notification?

Could it be possible that a document is created so that if you were to hand deliver a copy of the paperwork that someone at their office Prints, Signs, and Dates, your document for your record that the paperwork was delivered to their office and that this person is who took possession of it on this date.

 

[WyldeShot]

The question I have is this. My kids are listed on my trust along with my wife. My kids are under 18. Do they have to be finger printed and photoed for each purchase? I cannot find this information anywhere. I say the kids are not responsible person(s) and cannot legally own firearms yet, therefore they do not need to do through the process.

Again, I haven't seen anything about this yet.

 

[OneBadV8]

The question I have is this. My kids are listed on my trust along with my wife. My kids are under 18. Do they have to be finger printed and photoed for each purchase? I cannot find this information anywhere. I say the kids are not responsible person(s) and cannot legally own firearms yet, therefore they do not need to do through the process.

Again, I haven't seen anything about this yet.

I am not a lawyer.... but I believe you are correct. I'm sure the ATF would help answer the question if you called, emailed, etc to ask for clarification.

 

[WyldeShot]

I am not a lawyer.... but I believe you are correct. I'm sure the ATF would help answer the question if you called, emailed, etc to ask for clarification.

I will be submitting the question to the ATF. I will post on here once I have an answer.

I will be setting up another trust if they require the kids to go through the process too.

 

[fpdshooter]

Does the CLEO have to be YOUR CLEO? Isn't the ISP Superintendent or the state AG not the CLEO? Just asking.

 

[M67]

Could it be possible that a document is created so that if you were to hand deliver a copy of the paperwork that someone at their office Prints, Signs, and Dates, your document for your record that the paperwork was delivered to their office and that this person is who took possession of it on this date.

I'm just curious as to what, if anything, would happen if the CLEO never receives the notifications.....lost mail and such

 

[WyldeShot]

Does the CLEO have to be YOUR CLEO? Isn't the ISP Superintendent or the state AG not the CLEO? Just asking.

My understanding from reading the documents is that is has to be your local LEO, ie Sheriff. It also mentioned something about your locality LEO too, but I'm not sure if you have to send them one too.