Posing with SS on a flag

[Kutnupe14]

The Germans also Gave the Marine the nickname Teufel Hunden. Which means Devil Dogs, Since that came from the Nazi's we were fighting maybe we need to quit using that term too.

The Germans used "Devil Dogs" it was an insult, and the Marines embraced it (apples, oranges)

 

[thebishopp]

On this one point I have to disagree. I joined the military in an entirely different MOS, before I reclassed infantry. In my initial AIT I was taught to shoot, not kill. There was nothing in any of those range sessions that even remotely came close to trying to prepare a soldier to kill. I was handed an M-16, zeroed it, shot stationary targets, and then "pop up" targets. Never once relating the "target practice" to real people other than the shape. When I reclassed at Benning for infantry, and my aditional skill identifier a very good chunk was about the preparation, mindset, and rules of killing for the country. Drill Sergeants would psych you up about envisioning the targets as enemies, not just targets, and there was a whole lot of "You'd better drop that M******er before he does it to you!".

They must have changed the training, or perhaps a different training unit mindset, since I went through basic in 92. It was very much drilled (no pun intended) into us. From target practice to bayonet training it was "kill" "kill" "kill" - what makes the grass grow green!? BLOOD BLOOD MAKES THE GRASS GROW GREEN!!! kind of training over and over again.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Just so I have things straight...

We spend vast sums of money to train young, impressionable men to kill the enemy. We train them for weeks, months, years so that when the time comes, they will follow an order to kill. And not just kill them, but swiftly and without a second thought. We want them to be killing machines. We want them to be able to shoot the enemy in the head from long distances, and have the nerve to do it without flinching. We want them to be cold-blooded killers.


And then some people get upset because they don't think these cold-blooded killers are culturally sensitive.


Ok. Got it.

They are either culturally insensitive, or idiots. Take your pick

 

[EvilBlackGun]

bullet or bayonet or garrote ...

... killing must be cold-blooded or you never get over it. Life is just an animal. It's lots easier, killing from a bomber. Respect comes with forgiveness, maybe. Sensitivity is not for the cowardly.

I think that being a cold blooded killer is a large part of <war>, or at least training... My family has a long history of military service, and I have nothing but respect for our service men and women.

 

[ctbreitwieser]

They are either culturally insensitive, or idiots. Take your pick

They are neither of those two. It is nothing more than a flag representing a feared and elite unit (whether our enemy or not), and these snipers being the same thing, an elite unit that is feared by the Taliban. They are only showing the resemblance of those two units in that way only.

 

[MrYesterday]

"kill" "kill" "kill"

That was the cry on the bayonet range on the 2 hours we were there. I forgot that part. Maybe we were more rushed through, because I joined at the height of the "patriotism enlistments" after 9/11.

 

[thebishopp]

That was the cry on the bayonet range on the 2 hours we were there. I forgot that part. Maybe we were more rushed through, because I joined at the height of the "patriotism enlistments" after 9/11.

You FORGOT!!! lol don't let any of your old drills hear that their "kill" training went in one ear and out there other lol. Only 2 hours of bayonet training? Man... they must have really rushed you guys.

In anycase for you guys that think "killing" is the only thing a serviceman (term used unisexually) is trained for:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R89vhiua35A&feature=youtu.be

and some funny stuff just to add some humour to this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=8cqMKZVEvP8&NR=1

 

[thebishopp]

They are neither of those two. It is nothing more than a flag representing a feared and elite unit (whether our enemy or not), and these snipers being the same thing, an elite unit that is feared by the Taliban. They are only showing the resemblance of those two units in that way only.

True... but affiliating ourselves with an elite nazi unit, who were our enemies, and all that they represented (using their unit identifiers) is not, IMO, the smartest thing in the world.

Edit: Not to mention that we beat them... Can't say I'm overly superstitious but outfitting my squad/unit/whatever with the symbols and identifiers of defeated enemies (who also happened to be fighting for things that I don't agree with) seems a little prophetic to me. Like we have either become the very thing we supposedly fought against, or we are predicting our own demise by another.

 

[MrYesterday]

You FORGOT!!! lol don't let any of your old drills hear that their "kill" training went in one ear and out there other lol. Only 2 hours of bayonet training? Man... they must have really rushed you guys

They did. I was excited about the pugil sticks, and we barely even got to spar with them. I felt pretty gypped.

 

[thebishopp]

They did. I was excited about the pugil sticks, and we barely even got to spar with them. I felt pretty gypped.

Ah you were... Pugil sticks were fun I didn't realize I could get tired so fast lol, couple of minutes and those dang sticks felt like they weighed 100lbs.

 

[jblomenberg16]

I'm not going to comment on the appropriateness of the symbol...that seems to have been well discussed already.


What I am going to add to this is what my Grandfather (US Army, WWII, France) said regarding his time in France.


"Every Soldier is also an ambassador." His comment was in reference to the way he conducted himself when on liberty, or when interfacing with the many liberated French civilians he met.


What he meant by that is that every person that wears the uniform of this great country is in fact an ambassador for it, whether they realize it or not. The actions, words, and in this case pictures and videos, of our soldiers, sailors, marines, and airmen do in fact serve as a reflection of our country, whether we like it or not, and wether they want to be or not.


It is analogus to the debate on whether professional athletes are role models for young children. While some don't want that responsibility, like it or not, they are in a position of influence and their actions are closely monitored by everyone.

 

[Phil502]

They should drum every guy wearing one of these out of the Marines.

SSGT........

 

[hornadylnl]

So if I decide to use that flag as my avatar, everybody here would be okay with it?

Also, wouldn't the same government that these Marines work for put me on a watch list if I displayed that same flag in public view on my property?

 

[jd4320t]

JD4320t, I looked at your profile, Being an American and a Marine I find it very offensive that you would have a communist rifle laying an a American flag! Kind of Ironic in my mind.

Yep you got me. I buy guns and often lay them on my place mats for pics. That is exactly like an elite US Marine sniper team posing with an obvious Nazi SS inspired flag. I am sure CBS, NBC and Fox will be at my door tomorrow You can flame me all you want and I really don't care. Most of us don't go around advertising ourselves with the Nazi SS logo. I challenge you to prove me wrong. Send your child to school in an "innocent" scout sniper SS shirt and see what happens. Put an oh so "innocent" scout sniper SS on your vehicle and see what kind of feedback you get. Bad taste is bad taste. When we choose to display things we open ourselves up for criticism. Now please excuse me while I go cry because you exposed my Mosins and Ak's that weren't used in the commie war

I represent myself with an Eagle, Globe & Anchor logo.

Your first and second post pointed out that you thought it was in poor taste. That's fine, your entitled to your opinion and I want you to express it! So much so that I, like my brothers in the picture, would give my life to help preserve that right for you if so called upon to do so. Around your 3rd and 4th post though you began sensationalizing your opinion. If you think it's in poor taste, say so. Turning a small issue into a much bigger issue for everyone based on just your opinion is what I meant when I said "blow it up". I see things I don't like everyday, I see flags I don't care for everyday, but I suck it up and deal with it. I don't grandstand and try to explain to everyone else why they should not like them also...

Thank you for allowing me to have my opinion... No, I am not a soldier and I can't defend your rights. You got me there. I get it. However, every day I am a representive of my workplace, family and friends. For me to allow myself and ultimately them to be associated with a known Nazi logo would be a major let down on my part. In fact, I'm quite sure if I were representing my company at any event in public it would be grounds for dismissal. I'm sorry you can't see how much that means to me in my real world.

 

[adam]

 

[The Bubba Effect]

So if I decide to use that flag as my avatar, everybody here would be okay with it?

Also, wouldn't the same government that these Marines work for put me on a watch list if I displayed that same flag in public view on my property?

I'll take this one.

In response to question 1: I would care as much about that as I currently care about your current choice of avatar, which is to say "very little".

In response to question 2: You are already on a government watch list and it has nothing to do with your choice of flags.

 

[hornadylnl]

I'll take this one.

In response to question 1: I would care as much about that as I currently care about your current choice of avatar, which is to say "very little".

In response to question 2: You are already on a government watch list and it has nothing to do with your choice of flags.

Evidently you weren't around for the few neo nazi types here who had posts deleted or were run off of the forum.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Evidently you weren't around for the few neo nazi types here who had posts deleted or were run off of the forum.

I think I was, lol.

I felt sorry for them but they did not offend me.

 

[hornadylnl]

I think I was, lol.

I felt sorry for them but they did not offend me.

It doesn't offend me either but I think it's stupid. Whoever made that flag knows full well what they were doing when they created it. They knew full well the implications of the font and the letters.

I find very little to be offensive to me. Just because it's not offensive to me doesn't mean that I need to throw it out there to get a rise out of others. If I owned a rope factory, would I make a noose my company logo?

I'm as un PC as it gets. I spent 3.5 years Army active duty infantry. I know all about the bayonet course and that "Blood, Bright Red Blood" makes the grass grow green.

How many times have we read in the paper about the coniption fits about the SS stuff for sale at the 1500? And yes, I think those coniption fits are utterly ridiculous. I have old Duetche Mark coins with swastikas that I bought while in Germany. That stuff is a part of history. But I didn't display that stuff as part of my unit.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

It doesn't offend me either but I think it's stupid. Whoever made that flag knows full well what they were doing when they created it. They knew full well the implications of the font and the letters.

I find very little to be offensive to me. Just because it's not offensive to me doesn't mean that I need to throw it out there to get a rise out of others. If I owned a rope factory, would I make a noose my company logo?

I'm as un PC as it gets. I spent 3.5 years Army active duty infantry. I know all about the bayonet course and that "Blood, Bright Red Blood" makes the grass grow green.

How many times have we read in the paper about the coniption fits about the SS stuff for sale at the 1500? And yes, I think those coniption fits are utterly ridiculous. I have old Duetche Mark coins with swastikas that I bought while in Germany. That stuff is a part of history. But I didn't display that stuff as part of my unit.

Good points.