Ahh. Now they are shooting.
They want to play Balkans, let's play Balkans.
Ahh. Now they are shooting.
They want to play Balkans, let's play Balkans.
Relax. It comes to your town or not.
Oh, if only I'd bought that 50-95 lever action when I had the chance!
Dolloff charged with second-degree murder
https://coloradosun.com/2020/10/15/matthew-dolloff-second-degree-murder/
I'm betting he wishes you were on the jury.I’m betting he beats that.
Yep, because I don’t need to be politically or culturally aligned with a person to determine if their self-defense shooting was actually self-defense.
This is how I see it as well. Nothing ideological about it. From my perspective purely based on what I've seen it did'nt appear to be justified to me. Others disagree according to the way they see it. But I will readily admit that I'm not privy to ALL the evidence. He should have a fair trial.I’m willing to give Dolloff a fair shake. I just don’t see anything that would have made me draw on Keltner. Assuming Dolloff is an actor in good faith, from his perspective, he’s there to protect his client. He sees a guy who is obviously agitated from his encounter with the BLM guy. He’s holding a can of mace and walking aggressively towards the client. It’s reasonable to step in front of Keltner, and put his hands out in front, and ask him to stop, and then try to deescalate.
But it looked like he put his hands on Keltner, which would escalate things more, which is what appears to have happened. Keltner slapped him. And from the image sequence, it did not look like Keltner made any sudden moves like he was going for a gun. His left hand struck Dolloff, and the image sequence showed the follow through. He couldn’t have been going for a gun with his left. His right hand was occupied with the mace, which it looked like he was just starting to bring up, as Dolloff started to draw his weapon.
I’m trying to see it, but I just don’t see anything there that would have made me draw. And I get that we’re seeing a sequence of photoes that we can analyze afterwards, far outside of the time domain in which the events occurred. But I try to imagine myself in that time, In Dolloff’s position, with the most charitable interpretation of the facts. I don’t see Keltner reaching for a gun as Dolloff claimed.
Would you have drawn and fired having the same information that everyone else has? I really hope not. And iff Dolloff was reasonably in fear for his life, the defense will have to bring a lot more facts into evidence than we have now. It’s not ideological desire that brings me to that conclusion. Maybe there are more facts than the photos show. But if I’m on the jury, I’m going to be thinking as someone who carries a gun regularly, would I, and should I have drawn and fired. So far, no. I don’t think he should have been reasonably in fear for his or his client’s life. Especially if he had opportunities to deescalate.
I’m willing to give Dolloff a fair shake. I just don’t see anything that would have made me draw on Keltner. Assuming Dolloff is an actor in good faith, from his perspective, he’s there to protect his client. He sees a guy who is obviously agitated from his encounter with the BLM guy. He’s holding a can of mace and walking aggressively towards the client. It’s reasonable to step in front of Keltner, and put his hands out in front, and ask him to stop, and then try to deescalate.
But it looked like he put his hands on Keltner, which would escalate things more, which is what appears to have happened. Keltner slapped him. And from the image sequence, it did not look like Keltner made any sudden moves like he was going for a gun. His left hand struck Dolloff, and the image sequence showed the follow through. He couldn’t have been going for a gun with his left. His right hand was occupied with the mace, which it looked like he was just starting to bring up, as Dolloff started to draw his weapon.
I’m trying to see it, but I just don’t see anything there that would have made me draw. And I get that we’re seeing a sequence of photoes that we can analyze afterwards, far outside of the time domain in which the events occurred. But I try to imagine myself in that time, In Dolloff’s position, with the most charitable interpretation of the facts. I don’t see Keltner reaching for a gun as Dolloff claimed.
Would you have drawn and fired having the same information that everyone else has? I really hope not. And iff Dolloff was reasonably in fear for his life, the defense will have to bring a lot more facts into evidence than we have now. It’s not ideological desire that brings me to that conclusion. Maybe there are more facts than the photos show. But if I’m on the jury, I’m going to be thinking as someone who carries a gun regularly, would I, and should I have drawn and fired. So far, no. I don’t think he should have been reasonably in fear for his or his client’s life. Especially if he had opportunities to deescalate.
This is how I see it as well. Nothing ideological about it. From my perspective purely based on what I've seen it did'nt appear to be justified to me. Others disagree according to the way they see it. But I will readily admit that I'm not privy to ALL the evidence. He should have a fair trial.
I don't necessarily say that I would be justified even if a punch was thrown. There was a separation after the slap and from what I saw Keltner did'nt appear to make another advance to escalate. So no, in this situation I don't feel Keltner's action justified a drawdown from my perspective. I saw nothing that Keltner did that amounted to the use of any kind of deadly force on his part that warranted the use of deadly force by Doloff in kind.Just out of curiosity, other than reaching for his gun, what would he have had to do to get you to draw down on him. If it were a punch rather than a slap, would that meet your requirement?
Yep, because I don’t need to be politically or culturally aligned with a person to determine if their self-defense shooting was actually self-defense.