There. You. Go.
Denver's changed so much in the past two decades.
Yes. But how else do you objectively determine how good a teacher is?
Actually, I believe it's a combination of test score and in-class reviews by the principal.
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Political Funny Pictures DISCUSSION thread
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There. You. Go.
Denver's changed so much in the past two decades.
Actually, I believe it's a combination of test score and in-class reviews by the principal.
You could go check the standards for Colorado to see what subjects they are teaching.
https://www.cde.state.co.us/standardsandinstruction/coloradostandards
You haven't been on INGO long!
I thought we were just complaining about how the public school system is nothing more than liberal indoctrination, like always.
For what? It's going to say that Civics, for example, is required. It's going to give a sample civics curriculum. But it's NOT going to say everything that Ms. Widebottom in room C112 teaches in her civics class. She could be a rabid anti-vaccination, anti-government, anti-abortion radical right wingnut. Or, she could be a far left bat **** crazy commie Antifa freak.
But anyway, I'm not saying that public school is nothing more than liberal indoctrination. I shouldn't have to say that, because I haven't said that. Jetta's just being a bit hyperbolic. But I am saying that the number of teachers and administrators who teach and administrate with a far left bias is not zero. I'm not saying it's even a majority, but to whatever proportion teachers may be driven by ideology, the lion's share of those would certainly be left and not right.
The educational standards on the websites don't tell you exactly what or exactly how kids are being taught. If Ms Widebottom is an ideological conservative, and she's teaching in a rural school in a very conservative area, with a conservative school board, and conservative administrators, she's probably going to get away with injecting a good chunk of her ideological proclivities in her teaching. The same is true for the left side of it, and there's a lot more of the left side of it.
However, she is far more likely to be just like your neighbor, relative, or the lady at the end of the pew; working her butt off to do as good a job as possible for a public that seldom appreciates what she does.
What you said was "What's being taught Capitalism is evil and is therefore inferior to socialism," see post #128. In response, I have offered you my experience of working in schools, along with documentation of the state standards, to refute the notion that is actually being taught. I can't really do any more than that.
I can't really argue with any of that because there is no way to measure it, but yes, it is probably not zero. However, I would be willing to bet that it is far, far less than you imagine.
My wife has taught US Gov't, geography and History for over 35 years. She is qualified and teaches dual credit history classes, they get collehge credit for the class, for 10 years. Indiana has upped the requirements for dual credit certification to 600 level classes, think graduate student. Since retiring I have worked in the school everyday as well.
She requires that the students do the work on time and correctly. The state monitors the content taught and student performance. It is a challenging profession and she is always thinking ahead to make it interesting and meet the requirements. It is an evolving process. The administration and teachers work hard to make this work.
One thing I learned right away, all the teachers are motivated to help the students. I am impressed with their positive attitude and willingness to help the students. The vast majority of kids are good kids that respond well to adults. There are always the exceptions, those are the ones I get.
Still, I treat them with respect and try to show them they can make good decisions.
I like them and hope it makes a difference.
It is far from a bleak picture. What sticks in my mind is that these kids that may be a handful in class, are the ones holding an M4 or SAW in the Middle East.
Don
She requires that the students do the work on time and correctly. The state monitors the content taught and student performance. It is a challenging profession and she is always thinking ahead to make it interesting and meet the requirements. It is an evolving process. The administration and teachers work hard to make this work.
One thing I learned right away, all the teachers are motivated to help the students. I am impressed with their positive attitude and willingness to help the students. The vast majority of kids are good kids that respond well to adults. There are always the exceptions, those are the ones I get.
Still, I treat them with respect and try to show them they can make good decisions.
I like them and hope it makes a difference.
It is far from a bleak picture. What sticks in my mind is that these kids that may be a handful in class, are the ones holding an M4 or SAW in the Middle East.
Don
1) Um. I have some Bernie-bro neighbors down the street who kinda like the whole "from each according to ability to each..." idea. So if she's THAT neighbor, it's probably not the example you want.
Anyway, I sense that you think the number is negligible. They're picking this **** up from somewhere. 2) What's being taught... *by at least some*.
3) How do you propose to guess what I imagine, so that you could win this bet? I suspect it's greater than you think.
Polls year after year show that the number of college age people who say they prefer communism to capitalism is growing. Hearing them deny the violence brought about by Communism, and the inaccurate criticisms of Capitalism (not that Capitalism is perfect), makes it obvious that they have an inaccurate understanding of both. Where'd they get it? How did they become so delusional? Maybe from the internet. Peers. Maybe a little from high school. Surely, given the number of colleges which have gone bat-**** crazy recently, at least they've learned some of it in college. Probably multiple places contribute to the trend.
How many school teachers are far left? How many are moderate left? How many are moderate right? How many are far right?
1) Um. I have some Bernie-bro neighbors down the street who kinda like the whole "from each according to ability to each..." idea. So if she's THAT neighbor, it's probably not the example you want.
My opinion on that was stated in my first reply.
I'm happy to see that you are amending your previous statement. Good enough.
Once again, I will refer back to my first reply.
Rob, seems then that whatever the disagreement is, it revolves around one word missing from my original statement.
"Some". It's not an amendment. Teachers are teaching that capitalism is evil. If only two teachers are teaching that, the statement is true, though I'm sure it's much more than just two, given the increase in young people crapping on capitalism in favor of socialism and communism. I never said all. I never believed all. I could have been more clear, I could have said "some" or "many". And you could have asked if I meant "all" before you decided that I did.
You said that in your experience most teachers are conservative. A vast majority, even. I asked how many districts have you taught in. You didn't answer. Polls show that more liberals are in teaching fields than conservatives. An average community in Indiana, even in Indianapolis, isn't like an average community in very large, highly dense population centers on the east and west coast. I wouldn't doubt that in flyover country, there would be more conservative teachers than in those communities on the east/west coasts.
Look, I have no interest in this turning into a petty squabble over trivial words. There's nothing I said that needs amended. My point of view is no different now from the post that you initially replied to. We've discussed some more details though. We both understand a little more about what the other is saying.
"Some". It's not an amendment. Teachers are teaching that capitalism is evil. If only two teachers are teaching that, the statement is true, though I'm sure it's much more than just two, given the increase in young people crapping on capitalism in favor of socialism and communism. I never said all. I never believed all. I could have been more clear, I could have said "some" or "many". And you could have asked if I meant "all" before you decided that I did.
You said that in your experience most teachers are conservative. A vast majority, even. I asked how many districts have you taught in. You didn't answer. Polls show that more liberals are in teaching fields than conservatives. An average community in Indiana, even in Indianapolis, isn't like an average community in very large, highly dense population centers on the east and west coast. I wouldn't doubt that in flyover country, there would be more conservative teachers than in those communities on the east/west coasts.
Look, I have no interest in this turning into a petty squabble over trivial words. There's nothing I said that needs amended. My point of view is no different now from the post that you initially replied to. We've discussed some more details though. We both understand a little more about what the other is saying.
One just needs to look around this country and ask people (of all ages) some basic questions that include history, sociology, political science, math and etc. If all teachers were stellar - the ignorance of the individuals would not be so ridiculously poor. The ideologies presented during the classroom time is manipulated and filtered. Politics runs rapid in the teachers union (and others). The presented views are usually one sided. Morality is nearly extinct. The list is very long, very long. It's called indoctrination.
Now, do ALL teachers do this? Absolutely not. Do a majority? My gut tells me YES.
If I was wrong, the end results would exhibit something different that we see today; at all levels.
If I am wrong, show me the proof. My hat is off to those who are trying to do what is right - but IMO, majority are not.
Now, do ALL teachers do this? Absolutely not. Do a majority? My gut tells me YES.
If I was wrong, the end results would exhibit something different that we see today; at all levels.
If I am wrong, show me the proof. My hat is off to those who are trying to do what is right - but IMO, majority are not.
It's fine with me if we simply agree to disagree.
Here is what I am getting from you:
A poll that indicates there are more liberal teachers than conservative teachers is more important evidence of what is really being taught than the actual curriculum.
You admit you don't know how many teachers are teaching that "capitalism is evil." It could be two, could be some, it's not all, but you believe it could be many.
There is a poll that indicates that kids have become more opposed to capitalism, therefore schools must be to blame for teaching against it. My experience of actually working in schools is of no value to you in indicating otherwise because I haven't told you how many I have worked in.
I'm not sure what value to place on it, but apparently Ziggidy's gut agrees with you.
How about we just go back to complaining about liberals that hate guns based on anecdotal evidence and a lack of personal experience. I've given my
.
Would you like to take a good faith stab at what I’m saying and why I’m saying it or just stick with disingenuous?It's fine with me if we simply agree to disagree.
Here is what I am getting from you:
A poll that indicates there are more liberal teachers than conservative teachers is more important evidence of what is really being taught than the actual curriculum.
You admit you don't know how many teachers are teaching that "capitalism is evil." It could be two, could be some, it's not all, but you believe it could be many.
There is a poll that indicates that kids have become more opposed to capitalism, therefore schools must be to blame for teaching against it. My experience of actually working in schools is of no value to you in indicating otherwise because I haven't told you how many I have worked in.
I'm not sure what value to place on it, but apparently Ziggidy's gut agrees with you.
How about we just go back to complaining about liberals that hate guns based on anecdotal evidence and a lack of personal experience. I've given my
Not a majority. Anti-capitalism is on the rise, especially among young people. I don’t think anyone can reasonably pin it to *a* single source. Likely sources: schools, social media, TV, peers, activists, community organizers. I don’t think it’s just one source. Schools are just one. I really don’t think there are that many activist teachers in the midwestern or southern states.
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Because they aren't the Soviet Union anymore?
That was a good faith stab. You are saying that schools are teaching anti-capitalism, "capitalism is evil", you reiterated it in the very next post, although you downgraded it to a "likely" source among many. The one thing I am certainly not clear on is what evidence there is that supports that.
I'm happy to drop the whole thing, we obviously aren't going to convince each other of anything. The one thing I am not willing to drop is the accusation that I was being disingenuous. I simply stated your arguments in favor of your position as I understand them, with evident sarcasm, but as well as I could make any sense of it. If I have misunderstood something, then I am sorry. I apologize for the sarcasm.
My excuse is that it simply burns my britches to see people constantly complain about schools. I have worked in the government, private industry, and schools. People have no concept of just how much harder teachers work than what the average person does. They are so busy that simply going to the bathroom is a challenge, with some days known as "no pee days" due to the schedule. They arrive home utterly exhausted, then spend their evenings grading papers and preparing lessons. They are then accused of having it easy and teaching all manner of nefarious things. It's tiresome. My sarcasm was unwarranted, but that is where it comes from.
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