Pocket Gun Suggestions

[Johnny C]

Overpenetration can be mitigated with ammo selection to some degree, such as frangible ammo. I read somewhere about a new ammo design where the bullet is made of compressed powder, ring a bell to anyone?

I have a Springfield EMP in 9mm, and its pretty small (I should have waited for the .40 though). I have even considered sending it off to a custom smith and having the butt and magazines shortened by another 1/2"

Though right now I am playing with mini 1911 style pistols in various calibers, I in my never ending search for the perfect pocket pistol, I came across this one, available in 9mm and .380:

Rohrbaugh Firearms

Its a big expensive for some, but I will eventually be getting 1

 

[RainRider]

I own a 32 Beretta tomcat . Fits nicely in my pocket and pretty inexpensive.

 

[J4Me]

I like my S&W 642 in .38, however, it even feels like a pretty good size chunk in my jeans pocket. I'd like to have a smaller pocket size .380 in addition to it. I think your idea of starting small and working up is a good one.

 

[cosermann]

I am not that big to begin with . . .
I worry about over penetration. . . . That is my personal opinion and for the time being I will stick to it. . .

I get a little sense here that maybe you're not that experienced with all of this (my apologies if I'm misconstruing). Many of us here on this board are quite experienced with all this (to varying degrees) and are trying to be helpful.

With respect to size - my 10 year old daughter could (if it were legal to do so) carry something the size of a G19 with no problem (which is bigger than what we're discussing). Since you're an adult, you're probably larger. Something this size (weight really) is easily carried with a regular belt and a cheap Uncle Mike's holster. No special equipment needed. Something a bit smaller/lighter, such as in the Kahr CW9/SIG P232/etc. size range is even easier to carry. Unless one has some unusual dress requirements or the need for very deep concealment, something smaller isn't usually needed.

With respect to penetration - Given the implied assumption that you actually hit your target, this can be easily addressed through ammunition selection. Virtually all the modern HP designs in duty calibers are designed with a 12-18" penetration target in mind. Statistically, if one finds themselves in a defensive situation, I think the risk of being dead due to inadequate penetration is greater than the potential liability risk from overpeneration (generally speaking). Something to keep in mind - anything that will penetrate adequately to reliably and rapidly stop someone from threatening your life will also penetrate a typical stud/drywall wall.

With respect to cost - guns in the Kahr CW9 size range (as an example) do not require a special, expensive rig to carry them. A regular belt will work fine, as will an inexpensive holster. Do not think that you will save money buying something like a 380. I did a financial analysis for a friend not too long ago (easy to do) comparing a Bersa Thunder 380 (a good value) to a Kahr CW9. If one shoots a hundred-round box of ammo per month, the breakeven point was around 12 months. After that, the 380 is more expensive to own with every round fired.

Recoil - So, are you concerned about recoil? It sort of sounded like that in your OP. If so, don't forget that there is an inverse relationship between the size of the gun and felt recoil (other factors held constant). What you may need (if I'm reading you correctly) as much as anything at this stage, is practice to develop proficiency. Frankly, I don't find the tiny 380s (P3AT, LCP, etc.), all that pleasant to shoot. The "full-size" 380s like the Walther, SIG, Bersa are much better in this regard, and their 3.5-ish" barrels will maximize what you can get out of a 380. Something like this, can be carried on a regular belt, in a tuckable holster (like this one - Split Decision), under a bloused shirt with no problem.

I don't think anyone here is saying mouseguns don't have their niche. The can come in very handy. However, their chief virtue is in their diminutive size and they sacrifice something in capacity, power, and shootability for that small size (and the convenience that goes along with it). As long as you recognize this and accept it, go for it.

Best wishes in your search.

 

[Phil502]

What he said. ^^^

 

[CSK22]

My reasoning for carrying .32 or .25 is due to both size and also penetration. While many of you might worry that nothing under *insert caliber size here* will reliable incapacitate a threat I worry about over penetration. I do understand that you should always see where you are hitting, but ballistics is not an exact science. You cannot know that your bullet will not go through your target, you do not know that it will stop when it hits what you thought was a solid wall. While I might be looking to save my own skin I have to live with the fact that if I pull the trigger it may do more damage then I intended and as such I would rather minimize that risk. That is my personal opinion and for the time being I will stick to it.

If your worried about penetration, then if I were you I'd worry about such a small caliber penetrating enough. I've read reports of .25s literally sticking to the outer layer of skin and even bouncing off cans at close range distances.

While I respect your opinion on bullets passing through your targets, people are made out of more then the paper your probably used to shooting at. I would highly consider beefing up your calibers.

ALSO:

32 acp isn't cheap and it isn't widely available.
Nor is 25 acp

youll find more 9mm, 40, and 45 everywhere and you wont go broke as fast shooting it.

 

[groovatron]

I agree....my LCP loaded with golden sabers is harder to control and has more percieved recoil than any off my .45's. That being said, my lifestyle often dictates the use of a pocket pistol. And I feel very comfortable and safe with a good defensive round and an extra mag with my .380. Whenever possible, I carry a .45......when not, then it's the .380. Occasionally, I carry both. From my understanding, this is your first pistol and you wish to use your LTCH with it. I will tell you, it does take much skill to wield those little mouse guns. Long trigger pull, short barrel, aweful sights...etc. It may not be the best pistol to learn on. Also not ideal for plinking, which I believe is important to a new gun owner. I'm not saying it can't be done, it will just take a bit more practice. One thing is for certain, if you go with the .380 or smaller caliber pocket pistol, your first mid to full size pistol purchase will seem like a Cadillac in comparison.......If it were me, I would pick out a compact/midsize 9mm. As an earlier post said, ammo is cheaper, recoil is manageable, and if you decide to carry it, your stopping power will have a slight edge over a small .380. Just my .
Good luck, be safe, and enjoy yourself!

 

[groovatron]

If your worried about penetration, then if I were you I'd worry about such a small caliber penetrating enough. I've read reports of .25s literally sticking to the outer layer of skin and even bouncing off cans at close range distances.

While I respect your opinion on bullets passing through your targets, people are made out of more then the paper your probably used to shooting at. I would highly consider beefing up your calibers.

ALSO:

32 acp isn't cheap and it isn't widely available.
Nor is 25 acp

youll find more 9mm, 40, and 45 everywhere and you wont go broke as fast shooting it.

Bouncing of of cans?...Really? Haven't heard of that. I can make a blow dart out of a bic pen and a sewing needle that will easily penetrate a can. Send me a link or something to these reports.....I'd love to check them out...sounds interesting.

 

[ISP 5353]

Lots of really good advice regarding caliber and such. Remember you are not carrying a gun to be comfortable. You carry it to be comforted. Look at what you want the gun to do in regards to self defense. .380 is about the very minimum with 9mm being better suited for self defense. Statistics show that anything smaller is not a real reliable round when it comes to stopping a human or animal attack. I would choose a caliber and then look for a gun in that caliber that had the size requirements that you want. Good luck!

 

[LCSOSgt11]

Check out the Glock 36, it's in the right caliber, and "slim lined" for easy carry....

 

[CSK22]

Bouncing of of cans?...Really? Haven't heard of that. I can make a blow dart out of a bic pen and a sewing needle that will easily penetrate a can. Send me a link or something to these reports.....I'd love to check them out...sounds interesting.

My grandfather purchased a raven in .25acp about 20 years ago and while it has never jammed, we'd shoot the side of his work shed (plywood) and it would just hit it, nothing more, nothing less. Here are links that helped me stray away from a 25 acp.

.25ACP Ammunition Test - TheFiringLine Forums

Caliber/Ammo Selection

Concealed Carry Forum - Carry Guide

Really..how worthless is a .25acp? - The Firearms Forum.Com

Need help with a mouse gun! [Archive] - Calguns.net

GunBroker.com Message Forums - .22 vs .25 auto

Selection of a handgun for self defense

.25 ACP
Good:
Weapons are small.
Better than nothing.

Bad:
Not adequate as a primary weapon.
Not adequate as a backup weapon.
Ammunition is extremely expensive.

While some HOT loads of 25acp may be capable of much better penetration then what I was shooting, I'd rather have a 380, 9mm, 40, or 45 any day, availability, price of ammo, and ballistics. Just sayin ... not to mention if you have 250 you can afford a kel-tec p11, or for 300 a pf9, or for 350 a pt111. OR for 150 a c-9 from hi point

 

[cosermann]

Bouncing of of cans?...Really? Haven't heard of that.

Anecdotes from various other forums on the .25 acp, fwiw, (probably not much more than their entertainment value):

"Met a cab driver at the gunshop where I worked. He was buying a gun after he had been robbed in the cab. He took a .25 FMJ to the head behind his ear, fought the guy off, and drove himself to the hospital. He told them he thought he had been zapped with a stun gun because he saw a flash, heard a pop, and had a sharp pain in his head. Xray found a slug in his skin."

"I owned one at one time, back when I was young. Decided to do a little target practice with it to see how it would shoot. Placed a target on a pine tree, and fired off all 7 shots in the gun. At about 15 feet only three bullets hit the target, a sheet of writing paper with a colored dot on it. After removing the target, I was surprised to see all three bullets in the bark of the pine." - sold it after that.

"I know someone that was shot twice in the lower back with a .25 almost 3 decades ago. One of the bullets is still on his spine to this day. It will ocassionally make his back hurt but he can still walk normally and has no nerve damage to his lower extremities."

"i had a teacher in high school that knew a fat bartender that shot in the gut with a .25 according to the teacher the bartender took the pistol from the guy beat the stuffings out of him and then drove himself to the hospital. ..i also went to basic training with a guy that was a Fort Worth, Texas sheriffs deputy.. he told me a story of a pawn shop owner. this pawn shop owner was confronted by a would be robber in his shop one day. the perp had a .25 auto. when the owner wouldnt empty the register the perp shot him 3 times in the forehead the pawn shop owner then proceeded to jump the counter with a louisville slugger chase the would be robber into the parking lot beat the crap out of him and sit on him until the police showed up"

"I was poking holes in a small drum barrel to burn in. I used my single six with .22 short ammo and was poking through one side and denting the other side. My neighbor heard me shooting and came over to see if i needed help. He had a Raven .25 and that darn thing would just barely dent the outside and the bullets would fall to the ground somewhat deformed."

"I know a cop who got hit with one, when he was wearing a leather coat. It left a welt. (Yes, I really do know him, this wasn't a guy I heard of.)I know a cop who got hit with one, when he was wearing a leather coat. It left a welt. (Yes, I really do know him, this wasn't a guy I heard of.)"

"i had a freind who actually shot a person with one. the bullet was stopped by the guys jacket and shirt. i dont know the distance, but it couldnt have been to far."

OTOH, when the planets align, and the angles are right, and the shot placement is perfect:

"I sold a FIE Titan in 25acp to a friend who wanted it for his wife...While he was at work, he was attacked by 2 males, 1 female...He pulled the 25 out and shot one of them in the chest at close range...The perpetator died almost instantly...Not the best caliber, but did work that night..."

"My Father's best friend was a bouncer in Ft.Worth and 6'10 300lbs+ and his ex wife shot one time from 25 yards away with a damn .25acp and hit him in the heart killing him!!!! That's (sic) was fate calling."

But,

"Gun battles are gambles and winning gamblers have as much as possible in their hand when tossing chips in the pot. In picking a gun for a game you may HAVE to play when wishing you didn't try to pick a winner."

 

[varasha]

I just got a kel tec p32 and it it sooooo light and small...And i was able to put holes on target at 27 yards...I donno if i could do it not aiming but if i can get my time distortion machine working i can just slow down time and have plenty of it for aiming.....Oh well back to the future for a while..

 

[Brandan]

I carry a Kel-tec P3at .380acp in my pocket as backup and primary sometimes if needed. I would look at a Kel-tec, super affordable as well as a good shooting weapon.

Brandan

 

[yenningcomity]

Folks, we are responsible for our own actions. It will not matter how far the round was supposed to penetrate, or if you thought your field of fire was clear, all that will matter is the result. For myself, I have spent my time researching and contemplating and it has led me to the decision that I have. You might think that I am wrong or misguided, but if I follow your advice and the worst does happen I would still be responsible. So I am going to please ask that you refrain from bringing up anything than .25acp and .32acp as was the original intent of this thread.

I really do not want to rub feathers the wrong way, but there are many many more threads on this board asking about the other calibers that have been brought up. They are quite easy to search for, and if you want to discuss them further please start a new thread.

CSK22 - I have been paying attention to my local sources for the last few months. 25 is the most commonly stocked caliber with 32 being as common as 9mm. 380 is the least commonly stocked ammo, but this could be due to it being manufactured in batch runs and large military contracts for 9mm which use the same tooling.

 

[CSK22]

Folks, we are responsible for our own actions. It will not matter how far the round was supposed to penetrate, or if you thought your field of fire was clear, all that will matter is the result. For myself, I have spent my time researching and contemplating and it has led me to the decision that I have. You might think that I am wrong or misguided, but if I follow your advice and the worst does happen I would still be responsible. So I am going to please ask that you refrain from bringing up anything than .25acp and .32acp as was the original intent of this thread.

I really do not want to rub feathers the wrong way, but there are many many more threads on this board asking about the other calibers that have been brought up. They are quite easy to search for, and if you want to discuss them further please start a new thread.

CSK22 - I have been paying attention to my local sources for the last few months. 25 is the most commonly stocked caliber with 32 being as common as 9mm. 380 is the least commonly stocked ammo, but this could be due to it being manufactured in batch runs and large military contracts for 9mm which use the same tooling.

Hey dude, thats your prerogative and its between you and your God. Carry what your comfortable with , I wont knock you for that, at least your doing your research. Also you are responsible for your own actions, so practice your shot placement. I have seen 25 places but for more then any other caliber at the store(walmart) and have seen 32 once, I just stated what I said because I have yet to be at a store that hasnt had 40 since the summer.

 

[drd]

there are options in 9mm that aren't that big

G26, Kel-Tec Pf9, Walther PPS, Taurus 709 to name a few.

Get with somebody knowledgeable, and have them help you put together a good rig. Preferably, not a gunshop goon who doesn't necessarily have your best interest at heart.

My vote is for the Kahr PM9 one of, if not THE smallest 9mm. I've got one and love it. Recoil is reasonable for a small lightweight pistol.

 

[Dryden]

With a decent pocket holster (DeSantis Nemesis, Galco, Kramer...) a 15oz. J-frame will not be a hinderance to your everyday activities. The J-Frame can be loaded with some potent ammo. Add some Crimson Trace grips and you're good to go.

 

[thompal]

"I owned one at one time, back when I was young. Decided to do a little target practice with it to see how it would shoot. Placed a target on a pine tree, and fired off all 7 shots in the gun. At about 15 feet only three bullets hit the target, a sheet of writing paper with a colored dot on it. After removing the target, I was surprised to see all three bullets in the bark of the pine." - sold it after that.

"I know someone that was shot twice in the lower back with a .25 almost 3 decades ago. One of the bullets is still on his spine to this day. It will ocassionally make his back hurt but he can still walk normally and has no nerve damage to his lower extremities."

I think you can find examples in any caliber of non-performance and inaccurate weapons. For example, the father of a friend of mine was a WWII vet who was shot 7 or 8 times across the stomach and chest with an MP-40. He survived, and has an interesting series of scars to show for it.

As for accuracy, I have a Beretta 950 that is quite accurate out to 30 yards or so, and that's with minuscule sights. I had a Mustang .380 that wouldn't hit the broad side of a barn. The 950 is very smooth and has a nice trigger. The trigger on Mustang I had felt like it was dragging across coarse sandpaper. I'd take the Beretta any day over that Mustang (which I sold years ago because I hated it).

 

[drbarnes]

i carry a Kahr mk9 (9mm) and you cant even see it when im wearing shorts and a tshirt.