Pistol Optics, or NOT?

[2AOK]

I have good news for you friend, we're already there.

Thanks, but I'm not there yet. =]

My Sig Romeo 5 was purchased several years ago, so it's not the latest-and-greatest, but I don't think Sig has changed the design at all since then. The same Romeo 5 is still for sale everywhere, and my recent experience proves it's not reliable.

When electronic optics are as reliable as open sights, I'll jump in. Of course, they never will be, but I'll take the plunge one day anyway. =D

There are several manufacturers making proven, reliable RDS handgun optics today. Many have been mentioned already in this thread (Trijicon, Holosun, Leupold, even Steiner has a new one that seems to be performing well.)

Check out the Sage Dynamics white paper at this link for all of the data.

Sage Dynamics

Sage Dynamics offers reality-based training for law enforcement, military and private citizens.

www.sagedynamics.org

Per your comments and my own observations, LOTS of development is underway. When it settles into broad standards, that's when I'll trust it enough to take the leap.

Thanks for the whitepaper link.
Man, I'm never gonna read all that! =O

 

[2AOK]

Not sure why it matters if your red dot works or not, if it’s just going to sit unzeroed on a rifle in your safe for 3 years.

It matters because bite me.

Iron sights are zeroed.
Romeo 5 cowitnesses.
Red dot sits right on top of the front sight.
Close enough for SHTF.
Okay?

 

[2AOK]

I'm not sure a universal footprint is ever going to happen. There are too many patents and engineering factors at play. The closest we have to a standard now is the RMR footprint.

VHS vs. Betamax is the first example that comes to mind. Lots of money and research behind both video formats, but commerce always pushes for a standard. The process has played out since the dawn of mass production. Other very basic examples: electrical outlets in your home. Food cans that accommodate standard can openers, and vice versa. Nuts, bolts and the tools that fasten them. Memory cards. The ubiquity of the AR rifle platform. It's everywhere if you have time to think about it.

 

[MCgrease08]

At the end of the day, if you're not comfortable making the jump to red dots, that's fine, but there will always be some level of uncertainty or reasons not to do it. There will never be a time when every single piece of equipment will be universal, fool proof, and guaranteed to work every time.

 

[Born2vette]

VHS vs. Betamax is the first example that comes to mind. Lots of money and research behind both video formats, but commerce always pushes for a standard. The process has played out since the dawn of mass production. Other very basic examples: electrical outlets in your home. Food cans that accommodate standard can openers, and vice versa. Nuts, bolts and the tools that fasten them. Memory cards. The ubiquity of the AR rifle platform. It's everywhere if you have time to think about it.

Cell phone chargers

 

[2AOK]

Cell phone chargers

And cell phones themselves: iPhone vs. Android

Actually TWO standards, but you have to pick one and stick with it. Other early competitors are long gone.

 

[MCgrease08]

 

[Route 45]

It matters because bite me.

Iron sights are zeroed.
Romeo 5 cowitnesses.
Red dot sits right on top of the front sight.
Close enough for SHTF.
Okay?

Yeah, well...you haven't checked a critical system on your SHTF equipment for 3 years, regardless of whether you did a makeshift approximate zero in your garage. You're not on my team when the zombies rise. Unlike you, I actually don't want to get bitten.



Even a 14 year old Boy Scout knows to be prepared.

 

[2AOK]

He says, "With a dot I can see what's below the point of aim" as compared to having the slide and front sight blocking a lot of your view."

Wow. Never thougth of that. If engaging moving targets (and/or multiple assailants) I want to see as much as possible out front. Yeah, the dot is the better option.

 

[MCgrease08]

Yeah, well...you haven't checked a critical system on your SHTF equipment for 3 years, regardless of whether you did a makeshift approximate zero in your garage. You're not on my team when the zombies rise. Unlike you, I actually don't want to get bitten.



Even a 14 year old Boy Scout knows to be prepared.

I'm not sure he ever claimed that rifle was his SHTF rifle, only that it was "a rifle" in the safe.

I agree on the importance of being prepared and vetting hear, but not all gear is the "go-to" gear.

 

[2AOK]

Yeah, well...you haven't checked a critical system on your SHTF equipment for 3 years, regardless of whether you did a makeshift approximate zero in your garage. You're not on my team when the zombies rise. Unlike you, I actually don't want to get bitten.



Even a 14 year old Boy Scout knows to be prepared.

I saw your previous post ragging on another contributor's use of the term "casual gun owner." Anybody who takes offense at that has "snowflake" issues. Kinda Woke, aren'tcha?

And hey, if your hobby (or vocation) is anonymous bitchin' and complainin' online, knock yerself out. =D

 

[Airtevron1]

People still worried about zombies, wont they all just fall off the edge of the flat earth?

 

[Route 45]

I saw your previous post ragging on another contributor's use of the term "casual gun owner." Anybody who takes offense at that has "snowflake" issues. Kinda Woke, aren'tcha?

And hey, if your hobby (or vocation) is anonymous bitchin' and complainin' online, knock yerself out. =D

Much better to be “woke” in tems of preparedness than asleep at the wheel.

Makes no difference to me whether you care enough about the preparedness of yourself and your family or not, but I assure you that the snowflakes that don’t take their readiness seriously enough will be the first to melt if things ever get spicy.

I suggest you don’t worry about red dot or not, when it’s clear that the batteries are already dead on your mindset.

 

[Route 45]

I'm not sure he ever claimed that rifle was his SHTF rifle, only that it was "a rifle" in the safe.

I agree on the importance of being prepared and vetting hear, but not all gear is the "go-to" gear.

Well, he’s the one that mentioned SHTF, so…

 

[cg21]

I mean the sig rds is or at minimum was a bottom of the barrel budget rds so….. you get what you pay for.

 

[2AOK]

I mean the sig rds is or at minimum was a bottom of the barrel budget rds so….. you get what you pay for.

Kinda hard to square your comment with the 5-star user review averages that appear on every online retail site I've seen.

I'd say the Romeo 5 is an excellent value. A good product at a good price. Mine may be a lemon, but the problem I have with it convinces me not to put all my eggs in the red dot optics basket.

Interesting timing on the discovery of my Romeo 5 failure. Everything happens for a reason.

 

[cg21]

Kinda hard to square your comment with the 5-star user review averages that appear on every online retail site I've seen.

I'd say the Romeo 5 is an excellent value. A good product at a good price. Mine may be a lemon, but the problem I have with it convinces me not to put all my eggs in the red dot optics basket.

Interesting timing on the discovery of my Romeo 5 failure. Everything happens for a reason.

I mean hipoint carbines get good reviews and are very reliable. For what they are. People understand when they buy one what they are buying and the expectations are directly correlated with the money invested.

 

[MCgrease08]

I'd say the Romeo 5 is an excellent value. A good product at a good price. Mine may be a lemon, but the problem I have with it convinces me not to put all my eggs in the red dot optics basket.

I have two of the Romeo 5s and mine have been rock solid reliable. I have run both of them through hard training classes and they have proven themselves to the point that I completely trust those two particular units, not all Sig Romeo 5s across the board.

I'd push back on your comments by saying your experience should convince you not to trust that unit, but it may be shortsighted to apply that one experience to all red dots used across all applications.

And having a dot on a gun doesn't mean putting all your eggs in one basket. My pistols and rifles that have an RDS all have back-up sites on them.

 

[2AOK]

I mean hipoint carbines get good reviews and are very reliable. For what they are. People understand when they buy one what they are buying and the expectations are directly correlated with the money invested.

Sounds like you're saying the Romeo 5 is a POS, purchased by cheapskate, neophyte gun owners.

Sounds like you're saying I have to buy a sight that costs nearly as much (or more than) the cost of my pistol...or else I'm on par with a "Hi-Point carbine owner."

Hmmm.

Just to prove to yourself what a gun snob you are, pull up the Amazon.com product page for the optic in question. 5-star average with over 10,400 user reviews. Is Amazon a source of serious firearm opinion? Actually, sometimes it is, but I reference that page because of the vast number of satisfied reviewers.

 

[mmpsteve]

I'm not sure a universal footprint is ever going to happen. There are too many patents and engineering factors at play. The closest we have to a standard now is the RMR footprint.

Maybe not a universal footprint, but the Shadow Systems DR920, MR920 and CR920 pistols have an almost universal slide cut used with different wedges to attach any mainstream RDS. And it sits low. Like this, the smaller of the two pistols:




.