Pistol Optics, or NOT?

[bw210]

Old pic... but dots & lights are life now. It was a surprisingly easy transition going from irons to dots. I co-witness (que the optic police lecturing about two different systems) so I can shoot with dot middle of window or irons in the event of dot failure.

At 52 years old here in few months... my eyes like wml and dots. 9



My three main EDC's

 

[2AOK]

Old pic... but dots & lights are life now. It was a surprisingly easy transition going from irons to dots. I co-witness (que the optic police lecturing about two different systems) so I can shoot with dot middle of window or irons in the event of dot failure.

At 52 years old here in few months... my eyes like wml and dots. 9

View attachment 219112

My three main EDC's
View attachment 219113
View attachment 219114View attachment 219122

Thanks for the pics and insights. Those are some "big rigs" compared to what I carry daily. Your hand/wrist in pic #2 suggest that you might be "not heavy" like me. I have no trouble concealing a little 8rnd 9mm with a spare 7rnd mag in a pocket, but I doubt I could ever conceal your pistols (except in Winter time). And especially pic #3. Holy Mackeral! =O

What's your secret? How do you avoid being spotted? All three examples appear to be IWB holsters, so you I doubt you're an Open Carry devotee...

 

[bw210]

Thanks for the pics and insights. Those are some "big rigs" compared to what I carry daily. Your hand/wrist in pic #2 suggest that you might be "not heavy" like me. I have no trouble concealing a little 8rnd 9mm with a spare 7rnd mag in a pocket, but I doubt I could ever conceal your pistols (except in Winter time). And especially pic #3. Holy Mackeral! =O

What's your secret? How do you avoid being spotted? All three examples appear to be IWB holsters, so you I doubt you're an Open Carry devotee...

The M&P is carried AIWB and I use when I'm wearing shorts at work... Disappears. Second is my Staccato and is a fat boy... I can carry AIWB but alot of stuff to stuff down your pants up front, dot/x300/comp so I carry OWB. Last picture is my CCO with thin Alumigrips... the gun and extra mag is probably about as thick as a Glock... the picture is deceiving as it is a very thin and comfortable. For size reference I am 5'10" and 170 pounds with size 32 waist pants.

 

[2AOK]

The M&P is carried AIWB and I use when I'm wearing shorts at work... Disappears. Second is my Staccato and is a fat boy... I can carry AIWB but alot of stuff to stuff down your pants up front, dot/x300/comp so I carry OWB. Last picture is my CCO with thin Alumigrips... the gun and extra mag is probably about as thick as a Glock... the picture is deceiving as it is a very thin and comfortable. For size reference I am 5'10" and 170 pounds with size 32 waist pants.

Now that you mention appendix IWB carry, I understand better. I carry at 4:00, so any reholstering discharge would likely just graze me arse. The prospect of blowing my junk off or shooting the femoral artery is too big a risk (too many distractions here in "modern America"). I'm the same weight and waist size as you, but a little taller. I'm a true believer in the M&P M2.0 Compact 9mm, but carrying that pistol at 4:00 FBI-cant looks like brought my cordless drill along.

 

[gregkl]

Now that you mention appendix IWB carry, I understand better. I carry at 4:00, so any reholstering discharge would likely just graze me arse. The prospect of blowing my junk off or shooting the femoral artery is too big a risk (too many distractions here in "modern America"). I'm the same weight and waist size as you, but a little taller. I'm a true believer in the M&P M2.0 Compact 9mm, but carrying that pistol at 4:00 FBI-cant looks like brought my cordless drill along.

My daily carry is a Ruger EC9s, which is a good little 9mm. Very concealable, decent trigger, natural ergonomics if you add a Hogue grip sleeve with palm swells, and an all-around good shooter. But when winter comes, I'm carrying my M&P Compact. WooHoo.

I also have a 2.0 Compact and for me it's too large for EDC. I carry only OWB and concealed and the Shield fits and conceals much better. I carry at the 4 o'clock position also.

I'm also in your guys size range: 170/ 5'11". 32" waist.

I have relegated my Compact to range duty for the most part.

 

[2AOK]

I also have a 2.0 Compact and for me it's too large for EDC. [...] I have relegated my Compact to range duty for the most part.

I would love to have the full-size M9 (17rnds), and have been watching YouTube video reviews on the subject. Mrgunsngear there on YT is pretty straightforward in general. He says it's concealable, but he looks like a very BIG guy. For me...I don't know.

If I can find the right deal, I could justify the full-size pistol for home defense, BUT...that's the current role of my Compact because (like you) I haven't YET figured out a way to conceal it well enough.

Your tagline states, "Anything is possible."
I'm on it. =]

 

[gregkl]

I would love to have the full-size M9 (17rnds), and have been watching YouTube video reviews on the subject. Mrgunsngear there on YT is pretty straightforward in general. He says it's concealable, but he looks like a very BIG guy. For me...I don't know.

If I can find the right deal, I could justify the full-size pistol for home defense, BUT...that's the current role of my Compact because (like you) I haven't YET figured out a way to conceal it well enough.

Your tagline states, "Anything is possible."
I'm on it. =]

I had a full size then went to the Compact thinking it would be the best of two worlds; concealability and shootability. But since I'm not carrying it, I could have stuck with the FS.

But I'm not buying and selling anymore and I doubt I'd shoot the FS any better so I'll stay with what I have.

 

[2AOK]

I had a full size then went to the Compact thinking it would be the best of two worlds; concealability and shootability. But since I'm not carrying it, I could have stuck with the FS.

But I'm not buying and selling anymore and I doubt I'd shoot the FS any better so I'll stay with what I have.

Have you seen the website HandgunHero.com?
You can plug in any two (or more) pistols and REALLY SEE the size comparisons, as well as read detailed dimensional specs.

M&P M2.0 9mm: Subcompact vs. Compact vs. M9 Full-size
You can drag pistols in front of or behind one another, and can fade the opacity up and down. A GREAT website, sez I.

 

[gregkl]

Have you seen the website HandgunHero.com?
You can plug in any two (or more) pistols and REALLY SEE the size comparisons, as well as read detailed dimensional specs.

M&P M2.0 9mm: Subcompact vs. Compact vs. M9 Full-size
You can drag pistols in front of or behind one another, and can fade the opacity up and down. A GREAT website, sez I.

I think I could carry that Subcompact. I used to carry a Glock 26, though it printed some with Summer wear. The M9 full-size is only slightly larger than the Compact (see above). Slide is only 1/4" longer, which is meaningless, and the grip length is about 5/8" longer, which can increase the chance of printing at 4:00 canted, but should be doable for appendix carry (except that the relatively long slide will gouge you when you sit).

Does it sound like I'm talkin' myself out of the full-size and into the Subcompact? Duh. In the end, we all know it'll be BOTH. =D

I have played around with that site. It's pretty cool.

What I like about the compact is I have several 17 round mags for it and when I use those, it feels full size to me! Like you say, the 1/4" in barrel length is meaningless.

Sorry about the thread drift as this was supposed to be about dots. Carry on.

 

[2AOK]

Sorry about the thread drift as this was supposed to be about dots. Carry on.

No worries.
We wore out the red-dot discussion a hundred posts back.

S&W magazines are way overpriced at this point. I recall buying Glock 17 mags for about $15 dollars. Hoping these prices settle back down to earth soon...

 

[ditcherman]

Your tagline states, "Anything is possible."
I'm on it. =]

Yea but its in purple...

Sorry about the thread drift as this was supposed to be about dots. Carry on.

pphhhfffttttt.

 

[gregkl]

Yea but its in purple...



pphhhfffttttt.

Yup. Because there are things that are impossible...

 

[ditcherman]

Yup. Because there are things that are impossible...

Imagine, if you will, a thread on INGO that doesn't drift...
Nope.

 

[kaveman]

S&W magazines are always expensive. I've gotten used .40 mags from AIM and others for about $15 and have had great luck,...mags have all been near new. 9mm mags have been much more difficult. ACT aftermarket mags are supposed to be excellent, the equivalent of MecGar for everything else. They can be had for $20. Just got an order in for used S&W 9mm mags from EveryGunPart and those were $17-20 each. Better than paying $40 of new Smiths, at least for range mags.

I'm sending in three slides tomorrow to DP Custom for RMR cuts, two M1.0 .40 full size and a .45 Shield(407k cut). With the discount code, return shipping and new rear sight dovetails on the two .40 slides it comes out to $275 for the set. I've seen some other places that charge that much for one slide.

Woulda sent them in days ago but I'm waiting on a 407k to be delivered tomorrow. I'm including the three Holosuns and having DP mount them.

 

[2AOK]

S&W magazines are always expensive. I've gotten used .40 mags from AIM and others for about $15 and have had great luck,...mags have all been near new. 9mm mags have been much more difficult. ACT aftermarket mags are supposed to be excellent, the equivalent of MecGar for everything else. They can be had for $20. Just got an order in for used S&W 9mm mags from EveryGunPart and those were $17-20 each. Better than paying $40 of new Smiths, at least for range mags.

I'm sending in three slides tomorrow to DP Custom for RMR cuts, two M1.0 .40 full size and a .45 Shield(407k cut). With the discount code, return shipping and new rear sight dovetails on the two .40 slides it comes out to $275 for the set. I've seen some other places that charge that much for one slide.

Woulda sent them in days ago but I'm waiting on a 407k to be delivered tomorrow. I'm including the three Holosuns and having DP mount them.

THANKS for information regarding S&W M&P mags. I just Googled "ACT mags for M&P" and only glimpsed the results. I see the name Armscor associated with ACT. Uh, oh... Armcor used to make some horrendous stuff. =O Hopefully they got their act together since then. I'll look into the ACT mags. If they're comparable in quality and reputation to Mec-Gar, I'm in.

Man, you are definitely "in deep" with the red dot conversions. If I had the budget, I'd probably be right there with you. =D You've mentioned DP Custom before for custom milling of the slides at a good price. I appreciate that and have made note for future reference.

The price you mention for milling THREE slides PLUS recutting the rear sight dovetails seems very good. And it's great that they can mount the optic for you, too. =O The mounting is not included in the $275 price, is it?

If/when I undertake my own "Red Dot Conversion" I'll probably ask you a lot of obtuse questions. Thanks for the information.

 

[kaveman]

Yes, they'll mount the sights for free if you send them along with the slides. They had a 10% discount code up on the order page and return shipping is ten dollars no matter how many you send I guess. I always try to save some money by doing/purchasing lots.

 

[2AOK]

Yes, they'll mount the sights for free if you send them along with the slides. They had a 10% discount code up on the order page and return shipping is ten dollars no matter how many you send I guess. I always try to save some money by doing/purchasing lots.

Niiiice

Also, just read a 2019 thread on the Official S&W forum site where one guy said factory S&W mags are made in Italy under exclusive contract, therefore, you can't find them as OEM under another name.

Sounds like Mec-Gar to me. I have 100% faith in Mec-Gar mags.

I'm seeing decent reviews about ACT-MAG too, so I'll study up. Thanks, and good luck with your three pistol upgrades. BANG! BANG! BANG! =D

 

[gregkl]

I pretty much only purchase factory mags for my M&P's. I too bought used mags from AIM for $15 each. After using all of my mags equally in rotation, I couldn't pick out the mags I got with the pistol when new from the used ones I bought from AIM.

The factory mags just don't fail on me. I do strip them down once a year and clean them well though.

 

[2AOK]

I researched ACT-MAG magazines for M&P.
Here's "the most-liked NEGATIVE review" that appears on the MidwayUSA product page. That ACT-MAG 17rnd magazine is DISCONTINUED at Midway, which is not a good sign...

Decent

These appear to be made of pretty good quality upon examination, comparing to s&w mags they look exactly the same except for the finish. Its a black painted finish that isnt as "slick" as the s&w.

The springs are strong and mags are hard to load but thats a good thing As other reviewers have stated they dont seat as well as a factory mag does. A factory mag I can push in slowly by hand and will seat everytime, these will not seat by a slow push, they will botton out and the mag catch wont engage. But with a slight slam home they seat.

Another issue I noticed when shooting a falling steel match with these is that they seem to be ever so slightly wider than a factory mag, I had issues on reloads of empty mags not dropping, had to manually pull them out. Really slowed down my reloads.

Also during the match I had an issue where it wouldnt chamber a round, I havent been able to duplicate with and maybe it was just a fluke but I racked the slide twice with no round chambered ethier time. Ended up having to dump a full mag and reach for my next. Again slowing my time. While I wouldnt reccomend these for a match or self defense situation, if your hust looking for fun at the range these will do just fine, they fed bullets well into the gun and worked for the most part pretty decent. Bought 4 of these, will use them to chamber my extra round before a match and as back-up mags in the very back mag pouches but for game time its a factory mag all the way.

I think it's wise to avoid ACT-MAG magazines. Instead, buying S&W LE Trade-ins and/or waiting for new factory mag prices to fall makes better sense (to me).

FWIW, I think Mec-Gar probably makes factory S&W mags.

 

[kaveman]

You made me dig them out to check. I got ten of the 17rd ACT mags back in June for $20 apiece. Last week six used S&W 17rd mags came in from EveryGunPart.com. I got lucky on those,.....I had them in my cart from a month ago and they were all still there when EGP threw out a sale a couple of weeks ago. I checked the pics closely and weeded out any mags that looked suspect and watched for the 10rd mags to be sure I didn't get any of those. The work paid off,......all six are what I'd call 98% or better and on average cost me $18.63 each.

I haven't shot any of these mags so all I can give is a visual description and I don't have a full size M&P 9mm, just a couple of M&P Compact 9s with the 15rd grip frame so these 17rd mags extend a finger's worth when seated. Visually, the ACT mags are first rate and almost indistinguishable from the S&W mags. Finish is the same slick, hard blue. I don't know about any 'painted' finish. It's not cerakote or anything like that. Doesn't have any notable thickness to it. It's slick and all mags eject with equal vigor. The mags 'feel' quality, sharp corners, metal thickness and rigidity equal to the Smith mags. Insertion and lockup feels identical although I'm inserting 17rd mags in a 15rd magwell so if there's a problem with latch position I wouldn't be able to tell.

Just judging from 40yrs of handling and owning hundreds of pistols with both OEM and aftermarket mags,.......these things seem to be fine. I *think* they're MecGars and I *think* the OEM mags may be as well. I'd heard that rumor before. Generally I shy away from aftermarket as we all probably should. The cost of ammo necessary to prove reliability of even a 'good' aftermarket mag far overshadows the extra cost of OEM mags, but these will prove themselves on the range eventually. I've got enough OEM 15rd and 17rd mags for carry and they'll see little range use. I'll beat the ACTs and see how they hold up.