Photoshoot with Firearms.

[DanVoils]

It will be a studio shoot. I will be sure to unload them prior to entering the studio, and no ammunition will be in the studio. I do like the concept of a gun handler, though the set will be small enough where there won't be tons of people running around.

I'm very safety conscious. I have complete faith in my ability to ensure the safety of all those around. I want to be sure to portray firearms in a positive light, and not do anything to detract from that message. Thanks for all the input here. Many things to consider and implement.

Let me know if you'd like some help if it's during the week. I'd be willing to do the gun handling for you.

 

[Jack Burton]

I'm a photographer. I"m geting ready to do a photoshoot with firearms. I certainly understand the firearms rules.

Empty Magazine
Unload the Gun
Check the Gun
Unload the Gun
Check the Gun
Dry Fire

But I need to break the "never point at anything you don't intend to shoot" rule. Other than the safety precautions, what advice would you give? The intent is to portray handguns in a self defense role, and in a favorable light. Any insight you have is much appreciated.

Mike... are you familiar with the work of Oleg Volk? He is probably the premiere firearms photographer in the country.

Small arms

 

[Yup!]

Mike... are you familiar with the work of Oleg Volk? He is probably the premiere firearms photographer in the country.

Small arms

I was not - thanks for sharing, some awesome work here!

 

[225646]

One question is .... do you have a finger on the trigger ???? Too many times the photo looks like the gun is being held with a finger on the trigger.

 

[Yup!]

One question is .... do you have a finger on the trigger ???? Too many times the photo looks like the gun is being held with a finger on the trigger.

I haven't gotten to that point yet. For some of the images, I think it's necessary, but I understand the implications of doing so. As pointed out earlier, perhaps the only people who will know the difference is this crowd, so perhaps nothing will be lost by letting it rest on the slide.

 

[FreeLand]

if you want to point the barrel of the Glock straight at the camera with a finger inside the trigger guard, then remove the trigger group and reassemble the pistol. The visual effect won't work if you angle the pistol to a point where you would expect to see the tip of the trigger below the finger. But if you are straight into the lens, the trigger guard will obscure the fact that the trigger is missing.

 

[Yup!]

if you want to point the barrel of the Glock straight at the camera with a finger inside the trigger guard, then remove the trigger group and reassemble the pistol. The visual effect won't work if you angle the pistol to a point where you would expect to see the tip of the trigger below the finger. But if you are straight into the lens, the trigger guard will obscure the fact that the trigger is missing.

At the risk of sounding foolish. At what point is it too much. Respectfully, I know you can never be too cautious, but is it completely necessary to disassemble the weapon, when I can take other methods to ensure the safety.

 

[RedThunder]

Favorable light idea, have a lady pulling one out of her purse or gym bag, glove box and so on. I'm into photography and a bit of marketing as well. Imagine like 3/4 of a GLOCK coming out of a purse. Or a side shot of a lady at the beginning of the draw, hands coming together after pulling it from the purse or attaché case.

 

[Dead Duck]

Armorer - or Weapons Master is the guy on set in charge of the weapons.
Just like a Props master or Propmaster, except the props are weapons.

Over thinking can be a good thing but it doesn't need to be so complicated.
I did it for years. Once you have determined that the weapons are "Safe" and there is no live ammo on set - Then (and only then) your weapons are now Props. You can point your props anywhere you want. The safety "rules" do not apply anymore. They are just props. As long as there is a designated armorer on the set handling his props.

If those guns are not locked up for a break or the armorer walks away for a while, then those "props" are now hot again and it starts all over with the weapons check until they are deemed props again.

If you don't have an armorer on set then just get someone to be responsible enough to act as one. Working on a "closed set" is really the way to go. Small group and you can be more laxed about watching the weapons. Closed sets are also a standard term when you're doing nude shots and you have a skeleton crew with locked doors because an actor is shy and to keep guys from taking secret pictures for the tabloids.

When it lasts for days with a large production and different locations, it can get chaotic fast. Large gigs have armorers with basically an armored vehicle of sorts to store the guns. Like a safe on wheels.

Whatever you do, PLEASE don't embarrass the gun community by having your models pose with an awkward stance and incorrect gun techniques.
This is where you'll need a "gun guy" there to make sure it looks realistic and not dorky or you'll get crucified by critics similar to what you see here on INGO.

 

[Deadly Z Driver]

What kind of guns? You could remove some internals and leave them at home. They would still look the same on the outside but would not be functioning.

 

[scottka]

At the risk of sounding foolish. At what point is it too much. Respectfully, I know you can never be too cautious, but is it completely necessary to disassemble the weapon, when I can take other methods to ensure the safety.

I agree with you there. That seems to be like too much work. That's why I posted the striker removal video earlier which only takes maybe one minute if you've never done it before and renders the pistol useless as a firearm until the striker is put back in.

 

[IndyTacoma]

no need to dry fire a gun.

The Army has everybody dry fire your weapon on the qualification range once the table has been completed. There is no issues in dry firing. If you have been in the militaty yhe Marines and Army dry fire weapons all the time for drills. Never seen any issues as a result.

 

[JettaKnight]

I'm a photographer. I"m geting ready to do a photoshoot with firearms. I certainly understand the firearms rules.

Empty Magazine
Unload the Gun
Check the Gun
Unload the Gun
Check the Gun
Dry Fire

But I need to break the "never point at anything you don't intend to shoot" rule. Other than the safety precautions, what advice would you give? The intent is to portray handguns in a self defense role, and in a favorable light. Any insight you have is much appreciated.

How can you unload it twice? If you can, then you didn't unload it the first time!

One question is .... do you have a finger on the trigger ???? Too many times the photo looks like the gun is being held with a finger on the trigger.

I think that's the point.... (see bold in above).

Over thinking can be a good thing but it doesn't need to be so complicated.
I did it for years. Once you have determined that the weapons are "Safe" and there is no live ammo on set - Then (and only then) your weapons are now Props. You can point your props anywhere you want. The safety "rules" do not apply anymore. They are just props. As long as there is a designated armorer on the set handling his props.

Write out a checklist - just like pilots do. Print it out, have it on set for all to see and follow each step one at a time. When completed, the gun is completely safe and yet should only be handled by a limited set of people and kept in site or secured at all times.

We're gun owners - we respect firearms, not fear them.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Am I the only person here who does not think it is acceptable to point a gun at people you do not intend to shoot?

This is like the dumbasses on facebook who take pictures of themselves pointing guns at their heads or each other.

I see all these people posting "just keep your finger off the trigger" or "just make sure it's unloaded". Why? **** it, why not just rack a round into the chamber and go play cowboys and indians like you are twelve and playing with toys? As long as the safety is on you should be ok right?


This is how people get shot. They know the gun is unloaded, they know it's unloaded, they know its unloaded and BAM little johny is shot and someone's wringing their hands stammering about how it was unloaded and it just went off and now little johny has a hole in his lungs and he is bleeding to death.

 

[canav844]

USB tether to a laptop, it's live view on Steroids and saves time dumping the card at the end of the shoot, you can focus using the image as a whole or down to the 1:1 view, the Canon Utility software came with everything you need to do it (assuming you're still using the 5dMkII), the cables are ubiquitous if you chucked it most electronics anything stores have them (even CVS and walgreens) and all software is free download on canon's site. At that point all that's at risk is your camera and lens, which I'm sure you've got insured for anything that happens.

I can also have the firing pin out of a Glock in about 15-30 seconds with nothing but a pen cap (though I keep an armorers tool on my keychain), it's one step of rendering inoperable before any flying by airplane for me as I've read too many stories of clueless ticket agents and TSA staff. To me it's easier that putting a bucket or two of sand behind the camera to act as a one time backstop. I've also got the orange backplate used to check engagement that will be a visual confirmation that the firing pin is not in that particular Glock from afar, as well as close up inspection. Tool and backplate should run you $15 to $20

 

[JettaKnight]

Am I the only person here who does not think it is acceptable to point a gun at people you do not intend to shoot?

No, but....

This is like the dumbasses on facebook who take pictures of themselves pointing guns at their heads or each other.

In fact, it's nothing like that.

This is how people get shot.

No, doing STUPID things with guns is how people get shot. Follow a defined, safe procedure and no one gets hurt. We do it each day when we carry a gun. Same concept, different procedure. No magic, irrational fear, or superstitions needed.

Do you rant about the dangers of table saws too? Same concept* - disable it by pulling the plug and it's safe enough to french kiss.



* I know, the risk is greater in terms of probability and severity.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

No, but....

In fact, it's nothing like that.

No, doing STUPID things with guns is how people get shot. Follow a defined, safe procedure and no one gets hurt. We do it each day when we carry a gun. Same concept, different procedure. No magic, irrational fear, or superstitions needed.

Do you rant about the dangers of table saws too? Same concept* - disable it by pulling the plug and it's safe enough to french kiss.

* I know, the risk is greater in terms of probability and severity.

It is in fact exactly like that. If the OP posts the pics to facebook it will be in every way exactly like that because that will be exactly what is happening.

I agree doing stupid things is what gets people shot. Pointing guns at people you do not intend to shoot is a very stupid thing. Exactly the kind of stupid thing that gets people accidentally shot.

I also agree that following a safe, defined set of good rules is important to helping us be safe with firearms. A key part of that safe, defined set of rules is to put in place a set of overlapping safety rules. Not pointing a gun at people I do not want to shoot is the first of my overlapping safety rules. I would go so far as to say it is the most important of them. I intentionally build into my psyche an aversion to pointing guns at people I do not want to shoot.

I cannot count the number of times people have pointed guns at me or others and I have told them to stop only to have them get defensive and blow off some justification that "jeez, it's not even loaded" or "the safety is on, quit being so uptight".

I do not get on table saw forums and rant about table saw safety but I am not that involved in table saw culture

I am involved in the gun culture and I do take safety seriously. What we say on here could be read by people who have no experience or education about firearms at all. I try to be conscious of that. I do not want some new gun owner to stumble in here and see that "guys who know about guns" say that it is ok to point guns at people you do not intend to shoot as long as they are not loaded. That is bad business, it is bad for the gun community and it might get me or someone I care about shot.

As to the people suggesting that the OP use a replica gun, disable the firearm or put a non functioning barrel or other critical part, I am not criticizing them. Whether or not those things are "guns" and fall under safe gun handling rules is another discussion. As a matter of fact, there's a whole thread about that over in "tactics and training". https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/tactics_and_training/271291-what_is_a_gun.html .

If you read through that thread you will see people who are very active in the training community discussing whether or not it is acceptable to point even blue guns at people. Please pop into that thread and explain your position that it is OK to point real functioning firearms at people as long as they are unloaded and you keep your finger off the trigger.


What really baffles me is that some of the people condoning this unsafe behavior really ought to know better.

 

[Yup!]

I think some of the key differences from my stance are that the firearm will only be pointed at the camera. I have no desire to take a photo of someone pointing a firearm at another individual.

In addition, regardless of where the photos are posted, I guarantee you I will go to greater lengths to ensure the safety of all on the set. ( Three of us) My 25+ years of firearm handling/training is what brought me here to get a little more information before I conduct this photo shoot. I'm not just grabbing the closest gun, the closest model, and taking a photo. I'm taking deliberate steps to research the safety concerns as well as the concerns from other gun owners. I think that puts me at least one step ahead of the dumbasses you mention.

I do appreciate your input.

 

[2cool9031]

Do you mean like this?

 

[Yup!]

Do you mean like this?

Nope, not at all.