Peru police tase Alzheimer patient

[Sylvain]

South America is not safe anymore ...

 

[Denny347]

Maybe I missed it...were the LEO's informed of his condition BEFORE they had to deal with him or after?

 

[level.eleven]

Police are trained to use a force continuum as a means to quickly secure the public safety, not to attempt to act as trained social workers or medical personnel. I can't remember the last time I noted a merit LE position that required as much as an associates degree, much less requiring credentials for such a population.

Exactly. Lets keep the tasers away from 9 year old autistic children and 64 year old dementia patients in a nursing home. Lets save the pain compliance for criminals, not the sick. No one's life was in danger here, except the dementia patient. Look at that guy who was sucker punched at a bar by a SWAT XO in MN. He didn't suffer injuries from the punch, it was his head hitting the floor. This sociopath is lucky the 64 year old, late stage dementia patient didn't hurt himself when he hit the floor.

Or, the 2 other times the 64 year old, late stage, dementia patient was continually punished while flailing around on an institutional tile floor.

 

[strahd71]

Maybe I missed it...were the LEO's informed of his condition BEFORE they had to deal with him or after?

They should have had a clue considering they would have had to be let on the unit since it was locked?

And they were ordering him to get in the ambulance if i remember so yea they should have known

Jake

 

[hornadylnl]

They should have had a clue considering they would have had to be let on the unit since it was locked?

Jake

I'd bet they weren't thinking they were dealing with a 64 year old with roid rage.

 

[Ted]

.....Lets save the pain compliance for criminals, not the sick. No one's life was in danger here, except the dementia patient.......

There have been a lot of sick people that were a danger to people around them.

 

[Gabriel]

I also know that an old man only has so much strength, and a couple of police could've handled him without tazing him.

This lets me know that you have no idea what you are talking about and don't deal with combative people regularly in your daily life.

 

[Double T]

I have been rocked by an alzheimer's patient. That dude hit harder than the 17 y.o. that hit me when I was 18 and could not retaliate.

They think they are 20. they don't KNOW they are older, therefor they have a lot of fervor and spunk.

 

[handgun]

This sickens me to no end. No more tasers for cops.. take that tool away. Just too trigger happy... they are in all counties

 

[iamaclone45]

Clearly sedation is the way to go here, but have you guys ever fought a demented or psychotic patient? Stronger than regular folks I can assure you. EMS cannot give IM sedatives without getting clearance from a physician if it's not for airway control.

I agree with you that most of these demented or psychotic patients have almost super human strength. I've been tossed around by several little old ladies over the years.

I'm not sure what Duke EMS protocols are, but the system I work for has a Sedation Protocol for "Violent or Agitated Patients".

I've used this protocol several times in the field with great success. Our protocol allows us to sedate violent/agitated patients without contacting medical control for clearance.

It reads:

To provide guidelines for sedation of patients who are potentially violent or agitated and who may harm themselves or others.

Violent or agitated patients:
a. Use restraints protocol

b. If patient's condition is of danger to self or crew administer versed 3-5 mg SIVP/IM/IN q 5-10 minutes up to 10mg total. (Use lower dose or fentanyl in elderly, smaller size or those in which excessive sedation from other meds or hypotension are concerns; ie. sepsis, dehydration, trauma, BP borderline already, etc). OR use Fentanyl 1-2 mcg/kg SIVP every 5-10minutes as needed for sedation

 

[williamsburg]

This sickens me to no end. No more tasers for cops.. take that tool away. Just too trigger happy... they are in all counties

This hits home with me, my father suffered from Dementia/Alzheimers. It's amazing the changes and regression the people who suffer from this go through during the late stages. But the nursing home where my dad was never had/let things get so far out of control as to call the police in. They knew how to contain the patients. I was there one day when one of the other patients actually kicked a door to a room in and started acting aggressive. They got him secure then gave him a sedative. Nobody was hurt. In late days my dad had "bursts of rage" and he was never treated like this man in Peru.
I think this nursing home needs to evaluate there procedures. I also hope that this gentleman is moved to a place that will treat him better. The excuses given just do not hold merit with me, knowing that he is diagnosed and his "care givers" were there that should have known what to expect and how to handle him and relay all information to the responding officers.

Yes I agree there are officers who are too trigger happy when it comes to Tazers. Seems there is some times when it is warranted but others I've heard were "over board" by keeping on the "juice" button. The only bright side i guess is without these Tazers I would only think that they would have used other forceful/lethal ways to subdue him.

I hope this turns into a teaching lesson not only for this officer but others across the board who carry a Tazer.

 

[hornadylnl]

update

Kokomo Tribune : Officer fired for Tasing patient

 

[mrjarrell]

And what got him, deservedly, fired.

Martin Tased Howard five times — four times while on the ground, according to employees who witnessed the incident.

 

[Crydaddy]

Both NH staff and police are at fault here but more weight should be on the NH. The officer should not have been fired.

1st rule when dealing with confused and agitated patients is to give him his space and time to calm down. He was in his room and they should have left him alone.

Aside from the inability or difficulty to process verbal or tactile commands/cues, he is already over stimulated by all the ruckus going on around him. STAFF SHOULD KNOW THIS! they only made it worse by calling police. It shows how poorly trained the staff are.

By calling somebody that are not trained to care or handle situation involving dementia/ alzheimers is only making the whole situation go out of control.
Once you have the mindset to just clear a room without really knowing what / how a certain patient responds, this kind of event happen.


What would you do if you were placed in an enclosed space facing a lion with instructions to walk him outside and you are armed with a taser? (i know, poor analogy) lion trainers need not reply........

 

[SEIndSAM]

Both NH staff and police are at fault here but more weight should be on the NH. The officer should not have been fired.

1st rule when dealing with confused and agitated patients is to give him his space and time to calm down. He was in his room and they should have left him alone.

Aside from the inability or difficulty to process verbal or tactile commands/cues, he is already over stimulated by all the ruckus going on around him. STAFF SHOULD KNOW THIS! they only made it worse by calling police. It shows how poorly trained the staff are.

By calling somebody that are not trained to care or handle situation involving dementia/ alzheimers is only making the whole situation go out of control.
Once you have the mindset to just clear a room without really knowing what / how a certain patient responds, this kind of event happen.


What would you do if you were placed in an enclosed space facing a lion with instructions to walk him outside and you are armed with a taser? (i know, poor analogy) lion trainers need not reply........

In reading the article, I do not think he was fired for Tasing the guy the first time, he was fired for hitting the juice 4 more times while the guy was on the ground.

 

[Crydaddy]

^^^hence why i find them both at fault. Police for ignorance. Staff for neglect.

I see your point though, but with us not being present when it happened, it is very hard to determine if he needed to taze him repeatedly to subdue him. What i know is that certain patients experience sensory loss, impaired judgement and heightened rage probably making it enough for the patient to keep fighting.

 

[phylodog]

Uses of force must be considered reasonable. Each and every application of the Taser in this instance gets considered as if it were a unique and individual event. The first, second, third and fourth may have been justified but if the last one wasn't the officer is wrong.

 

[Rookie]

I still think the administrator should be fired before the officer.

 

[littletommy]

I still think the administrator should be fired before the officer.

Or just take both of them when they're having a really bad day, taze em' half a dozen times, and call it even.