Pence for Governor '12!!!

[Indy_Guy_77]

Mike Pence starts 2012 race for Indiana governor | The Indianapolis Star | indystar.com

 

[awatarius]

Mike Pence starts 2012 race for Indiana governor | The Indianapolis Star | indystar.com

No way in hell will I ever vote for Mike Pence. He is a old guard type of Republican. Socially Conservative family values politician. He voted against the hate crimes bill that would include sexual identity because "the hate crimes bill is broad enough to encompass legitimate beliefs". So my beliefs and me being who I am is not legitimate? Not only is he making a stance on something I feel strongly about BUT he insulted me. No he won't be getting my vote.

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[Plinker]

Well, I'll definitely be voting for him. I see no reason for any hate crime legislation. Murder is murder. Battery is battery.

No way in hell will I ever vote for Mike Pence. He is a old guard type of Republican. Socially Conservative family values politician. He voted against the hate crimes bill that would include sexual identity because "the hate crimes bill is broad enough to encompass legitimate beliefs". So my beliefs and me being who I am is not legitimate? Not only is he making a stance on something I feel strongly about BUT he insulted me. No he won't be getting my vote.

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[cbseniour]

What he said

Why you do a crime should not be a crime.
thought even though it may be repulsive can not be legislated any more than morality.

 

[awatarius]

Well, I'll definitely be voting for him. I see no reason for any hate crime legislation. Murder is murder. Battery is battery.

You couldn't be more wrong. It's the cause of the battery. You have never been "gay bashed" it truly happens all the time. It wasn't about stopping battery because the punishment is nil and allows the mindset of violence to continue, and it's a cultural issue that allows this to occur. Calling it a hate crime brings more eduction, tougher penalties, and lets it be known that it's not ok to hate. Since hate crime legislation those types of attacks have been on the decline. Nobody goes about saying "commit battery its good" some do advocate battery against certain classes of people. Im all for it.

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[John Galt]

Yes, go Pence!

 

[mrjarrell]

Yet another big government drug warrior that I won't voting for.

 

[awatarius]

Yet another big government drug warrior that I won't voting for.

Im just going to say that until the Republican Party finishes it's slow evolution Dinosaurs like Pence will crop up. They will only slow the change of fiscal conservatism, and less social politics. This blend is the party of the future, and Pence is far from that. The days of the GOP far right is coming to an end, and I can't wait. Then the Republican Party can make some changes for the future.

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[melensdad]

Calling it a hate crime brings more eduction, tougher penalties, and lets it be known that it's not ok to hate.

The problem with "hate crime" legislation is that it may only be enforced one way. For example the Black Panthers in Philly were committing a 'hate crime' by intimidating white voters away from the polling place and preventing them from voting. Eric Holder refuses to prosecute 'hate crimes' against the racial majority because they are not the minority???

Personally I see no reason to classify a crime as a hate crime. I gather that you do. So be it. To me a crime is a crime. Punish the criminal.

But then again I also do not agree with 'enhanced' sentences for killing police officers either. A cop who is killed should not be considered to be more valuable than a teacher, a businessman, a priest, the kid flipping burgers at McDonalds or a factory worker who is killed. Kill someone and go to jail (or get the chair).

Oh and about teaching people its not OK to "hate" well its also not OK to kill, rob, assault, etc so they can learn that in jail.

 

[Plinker]

Everyone is guaranteed equal protection under the law. Why should certain persons be given 'special' protections?

You say you're against the government legislating morality, but isn't this the same thing, just the other way around?

You couldn't be more wrong. It's the cause of the battery. You have never been "gay bashed" it truly happens all the time. It wasn't about stopping battery because the punishment is nil and allows the mindset of violence to continue, and it's a cultural issue that allows this to occur. Calling it a hate crime brings more eduction, tougher penalties, and lets it be known that it's not ok to hate. Since hate crime legislation those types of attacks have been on the decline. Nobody goes about saying "commit battery its good" some do advocate battery against certain classes of people. Im all for it.

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[awatarius]

Everyone is guaranteed equal protection under the law. Why should certain persons be given 'special' protections?

You say you're against the government legislating morality, but isn't this the same thing, just the other way around?

It's not the same thing at all. I won't tell you that you have to like me for being gay. You can tell all your children to hate gays, you can gather in this strange little groups and preach to each other that hating me is ok. I won't stop you. When you tell them that I am less than human and it becomes a rash of violence because those people start stoning my family and myself... then it's not morality its stopping a rash of violence against a certain sect of people you hate. It's saying that there is premeditation and the mindset needs legislated against to make a statement. Committing crimes with hate and premeditation is less ok than one of passion.

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[level.eleven]

Surely the Tea Parties of Indiana won't be endorsing Pence, will they?

 

[awatarius]

Surely the Tea Parties of Indiana won't be endorsing Pence, will they?

I wouldn't think so.

 

[melensdad]

It's not the same thing at all. I won't tell you that you have to like me for being gay. . .

Yes it is. Your logic is flawed.

My father was in WWII, a Japanese Zero he helped shoot down almost crashed into his gun turret on his ship, the flames were so close to him they burnt his head. His ship was the most damaged ship in WWII that didn't actually sink. He never forgave the Japanese. He, in fact, hated them.

I know people who hate Jews.

I know people who hate Muslims.

I know people who hate Catholics.

I know people who hate . . .

So some people hate this, or that or something else. It will never change and making a special protected class will probably continue to perpetuate the divisions between people. Matters not what divides us. But if a 'class' or 'group' is set aside that will lead to hard feelings, not eliminate them!

 

[mrjarrell]

Surely the Tea Parties of Indiana won't be endorsing Pence, will they?

Depends on the TEA Party. There's a heavily republicrat wing of it here and a more liberty oriented wing. One segment actually has experienced a bit of a schism and had someone pop up and take it over from the people who were in on the ground floor. Said person has been purging folks, too. The TEA Party is rather disorganised and has, in many cases drifted from its roots. That can laid right at the feet of the republicrat machine that's been touring the country inserting itself into the groups.

 

[awatarius]

Yes it is. Your logic is flawed.

My father was in WWII, a Japanese Zero he helped shoot down almost crashed into his gun turret on his ship, the flames were so close to him they burnt his head. His ship was the most damaged ship in WWII that didn't actually sink. He never forgave the Japanese. He, in fact, hated them.

I know people who hate Jews.

I know people who hate Muslims.

I know people who hate Catholics.

I know people who hate . . .

So some people hate this, or that or something else. It will never change and making a special protected class will probably continue to perpetuate the divisions between people. Matters not what divides us. But if a 'class' or 'group' is set aside that will lead to hard feelings, not eliminate them!

And yet you say this or that, or something else. People are not something, people isn't a "this". Committing crimes AGAINST a human for WHO THEY ARE simply for being is something that can't be tolerated. It's not hating a religion, it's not hating the yankees. It's hating me because I live, because I am, because I exist. Hate and violence for those reasons is worse, and should be treated as such.

 

[melensdad]

People committing crimes against others cannot be tolerated.

Why should it make a difference if the victims are gay, Catholic, native Indian, or whatever?

Why do you get to decide what crime is worse? I don't understand that concept. Who elevated you to that status? Is it because you are a member of a protected class that you get to decide? If I am not a member of a protected class then I, am, in fact being discriminated against and should be protected!!! Oh wait, that was sarcasm.

I stand with the fact that a crime is a crime and the criminal must be punished.

 

[Plinker]

It's not the same thing at all. I won't tell you that you have to like me for being gay. You can tell all your children to hate gays, you can gather in this strange little groups and preach to each other that hating me is ok. I won't stop you. When you tell them that I am less than human and it becomes a rash of violence because those people start stoning my family and myself... then it's not morality its stopping a rash of violence against a certain sect of people you hate. It's saying that there is premeditation and the mindset needs legislated against to make a statement. Committing crimes with hate and premeditation is less ok than one of passion.

Thanks,
Matthew

Prejudice, in any form, is morally wrong in my book (and in most people's books, if I had to guess). However, people attack other people who they despise all the time. Should they be hate crimes? Poor people sometimes hate rich people. If a poor person broke into a rich person's home, robbed, and killed them, should that be a hate crime? I've been sucker punched in a bar because I was the biggest guy there. I don't know if he hates tall people, but should he have been handed a harsher penalty than he received? After all, it's not my fault I'm tall?

I still stand by my case, no special protections for anyone. Equal protection for all. And no one is more equal than anyone else.

 

[awatarius]

People committing crimes against others cannot be tolerated.

Why should it make a difference if the victims are gay, Catholic, native Indian, or whatever?

Because societies in some circles have said it's ok. Because everyone knows it's not ok to thump someone unless... see it's institutionalized. Some parents with the way they talk to their kids make it more ok. That is very much part of it. It's the intent, the malice, and it's the whole idea that is being legislated against. It's a reminder and one we need clearly with all the suicides, deaths, bullying, and rash of issues the last few years.

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[rjstew317]

cant you consider all violent crimes, committed by one individual against another, a "hate crime"? it's not like they're "happy hug crimes"