Paramedic to stand trial for obstructing police

[rmabrey]

I understood it as she was being charged with interfering, not the bumping into. Either way I don't really think that charging her with a crime is the best way to handle it.

Not at all. Getting involved was not the smartest or safest thing to do but probably not an issue for the courts

 

[The Meach]

Heard about this one already. My cousin worked as an EMT night shift while he was finishing med school and during his residency (i know hardcore right?) But if he was in this situation he would have been morally obligated to intervene by his Hippocratic Oath.

As he [my cousin] put it, upon encountering the individual she would became his patient. Now if the police threatened to harm his patient needlessly by the standards of his medical judgment. He wouldn't be able to NOT intervene.

This girl shouldn't be punished she should be given a fricken medal for stepping in front of a proven lethal weapon to protect a woman under her care.

The woman was an idiot. Tazers are = to firearms. And the Cops in this case were unreasonable.

 

[kedie]

At least for the most part I think we can all agree the police were justified this time

I think they were. If I'm on scene and a person starts swinging at me, my crew, or the cops, I'll be more than happy to watch them ride the lightning for a bit.

 

[hornadylnl]

Heard about this one already. My cousin worked as an EMT night shift while he was finishing med school and during his residency (i know hardcore right?) But if he was in this situation he would have been morally obligated to intervene by his Hippocratic Oath.

As he [my cousin] put it, upon encountering the individual she would became his patient. Now if the police threatened to harm his patient needlessly by the standards of his medical judgment. He wouldn't be able to NOT intervene.

This girl shouldn't be punished she should be given a fricken medal for stepping in front of a proven lethal weapon to protect a woman under her care.

The woman was an idiot. Tazers are = to firearms. And the Cops in this case were unreasonable.

This makes great sense.

From what limited information we have, it doesn't sound like the emt did anything to interfere with the woman being taken to the hospital. Her objection was the use of the taser.

 

[rmabrey]

I think they were. If I'm on scene and a person starts swinging at me, my crew, or the cops, I'll be more than happy to watch them ride the lightning for a bit.

I have no issues either, at least no in this case

This makes great sense.

From what limited information we have, it doesn't sound like the emt did anything to interfere with the woman being taken to the hospital. Her objection was the use of the taser.

exactly

 

[kedie]

As he [my cousin] put it, upon encountering the individual she would became his patient.

Correct, untill she starts swinging. Then she goes from patient to threat, and threats are better handled by the cops.

 

[1032JBT]

First off, I am firmly in the camp of if you ae going to do it......just do it and get it over with and keep your mouth/fingers quiet about it. I don't agree with suicide as I have been one of the family members left behind wondering why. It's a cowards permenant solution to a temporary problem. And no.......I'm not talking about the terminal illness situation here, just the typical "my boyfriend left me/doesn't love me anymore" situation tha is more common.

Secondly, I don't agree with charges here based on what was in the article. I tend to think there might be more involved here than what was reported, but I could be wrong.........wouldn't be the first time.


Now as far as the medic herself and the actions by police..........I think the police were right and she was wrong. No this isn't a cop standing up for a cop so don't go there. The female took a couple swings at the cops......period. In my world if you swing on me one of two things is going to happen.......you are getting put down hard and fast or if I have the distance then you bought yourself a ticket for a lightening ride. If people don't agree with that fine........I can agree to disagree and I wil not aurgue that point. Let's say the lady took those swings at the medic and the cops tased her........nothing would be said because they did their job. Now if they didn't tase her the medic would be the one crying that the cops didn't do their job protecting her on scene.



All in all this is a sad situation because the cops and medics should be on the same team not fighting each other........nothing good comes of that. And I have been on both sides of the fence here and my feelings have never changed.

 

[rmabrey]

First off, I am firmly in the camp of if you ae going to do it......just do it and get it over with and keep your mouth/fingers quiet about it. I don't agree with suicide as I have been one of the family members left behind wondering why. It's a cowards permenant solution to a temporary problem. And no.......I'm not talking about the terminal illness situation here, just the typical "my boyfriend left me/doesn't love me anymore" situation tha is more common.

Secondly, I don't agree with charges here based on what was in the article. I tend to think there might be more involved here than what was reported, but I could be wrong.........wouldn't be the first time.


Now as far as the medic herself and the actions by police..........I think the police were right and she was wrong. No this isn't a cop standing up for a cop so don't go there. The female took a couple swings at the cops......period. In my world if you swing on me one of two things is going to happen.......you are getting put down hard and fast or if I have the distance then you bought yourself a ticket for a lightening ride. If people don't agree with that fine........I can agree to disagree and I wil not aurgue that point. Let's say the lady took those swings at the medic and the cops tased her........nothing would be said because they did their job. Now if they didn't tase her the medic would be the one crying that the cops didn't do their job protecting her on scene.



All in all this is a sad situation because the cops and medics should be on the same team not fighting each other........nothing good comes of that. And I have been on both sides of the fence here and my feelings have never changed.

WHen I recharge this is the first post im coming to. well said

 

[The Meach]

Correct, untill she starts swinging. Then she goes from patient to threat, and threats are better handled by the cops.

That was taken into account. And physical restraint would have sufficed. However the use attempted use of a lethal weapon (which a tazer is) against an identified deranged individual acting as a deranged individual is expected to act is unconscionable.

Tazers have proven to have an High lethality in all individuals regardless of age, health, or physical condition. Any Medical treatment or practice with the level of mortality of a tazer would be considered a unethical and illegal practice.

Thus a attending physician [or anyone of sound mind] would and SHOULD object to its use unless there is a direct and distinct threat to others of the approximate maximum effect of the device used. i.e. If the woman was a lethal threat to the officers or bystanders but it was determined that firearms where not completely necessary at that time the risks of a tazer would be ethically permissible.

Lethal weapons of should only be used in an attempt to prevent death NOT inconvenience or discomfort.

If an officer with assistance on scene makes the choice to use a weapon to subdue a mentally unstable, suicidal, and un-well women rather than at least attempt to use a more appropriate form of force such as a hand to hand confrontation in order to prevent superficial injury to themselves then that officer demonstrates a profound disregard for life.

One would think that those sworn to protect and serve would show at least a small amount of compassion for the sick.

The actions of this EMT are morally praiseworthy. And her treatment as a criminal is a tragedy. It only stands as evidence of the growing neglect for the well-being police departments are showing for those they claim to protect. It is an even greater indictment of a greater system of authoritarianism that has ensnared this nation. The under-classed individuals also known as the general population are viewed as lesser than those with authority.

Bless this EMT and her actions. For they are in keeping in what is truly the greatest aims for her profession of service to the sick, infirm, and unwell.

 

[1032JBT]

That was taken into account. And physical restraint would have sufficed. However the use attempted use of a lethal weapon (which a tazer is) against an identified deranged individual acting as a deranged individual is expected to act is unconscionable.

Tazers have proven to have an High lethality in all individuals regardless of age, health, or physical condition. Any Medical treatment or practice with the level of mortality of a tazer would be considered a unethical and illegal practice.

Thus a attending physician [or anyone of sound mind] would and SHOULD object to its use unless there is a direct and distinct threat to others of the approximate maximum effect of the device used. i.e. If the woman was a lethal threat to the officers or bystanders but it was determined that firearms where not completely necessary at that time the risks of a tazer would be ethically permissible.

Lethal weapons of should only be used in an attempt to prevent death NOT inconvenience or discomfort.

If an officer with assistance on scene makes the choice to use a weapon to subdue a mentally unstable, suicidal, and un-well women rather than at least attempt to use a more appropriate form of force such as a hand to hand confrontation in order to prevent superficial injury to themselves then that officer demonstrates a profound disregard for life.

One would think that those sworn to protect and serve would show at least a small amount of compassion for the sick.

The actions of this EMT are morally praiseworthy. And her treatment as a criminal is a tragedy. It only stands as evidence of the growing neglect for the well-being police departments are showing for those the claim to protect. It is and even greater indictment of a greater system of authoritarianism that has ensnared this nation. The under-classed individuals also known as the general population are viewed as lesser than those with authority.

Bless this EMT and her holy actions. For they are in keeping in what is truly the greatest aims for her profession of service to the sick, infirm, and unwell.

 

[public servant]

Tazers have proven to have an High lethality in all individuals regardless of age, health, or physical condition.

Please quote a percentage?

I know a 64 year old man with a heart condition that rode the bull multiple times with no injury from the tasing.

A study led by William Bozeman, of the Wake Forest University Baptist Medical Center, of nearly 1,000 persons subjected to Taser use, concluded that 99.7% of the subjects had either minor injuries, such as scrapes and bruises, or none at all, while three persons suffered injuries severe enough to need hospital admission, and two other subjects died. Their autopsy reports indicated neither death was related to the use of a Taser.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser#cite_note-wakeforest-55http://www.physorg.com/news111080086.html

 

[1032JBT]

Please quote a percentage?

I know a 64 year old man with a heart condition that rode the bull multiple times with no injury from the tasing.

Not too mention I have taken it around 20 times, if the percentage is so dangerously high.........I should be dead right now (or at the minimum have a slight twitch).

 

[hornadylnl]

Not too mention I have taken it around 20 times, if the percentage is so dangerously high.........I should be dead right now (or at the minimum have a slight twitch).

Can I administer number 21?

 

[public servant]

Not too mention I have taken it around 20 times, if the percentage is so dangerously high.........I should be dead right now (or at the minimum have a slight twitch).

I've taken the full ride at least a dozen times. It didn't kill this old, fat guy.

**It does however hurt like hell.

 

[1032JBT]

Can I administer number 21?

Sure........I'm not gonna lie, it hurts like Hell.........but it's not lethal without some other issue present. Hell........a static electricity shock you get from a door knob has WAAAAYYYYYY more voltage than the Taser does.

 

[The Meach]

Tazers have proven to have an High lethality in all individuals regardless of age, health, or physical condition.

The US Consumer Product Safety Commission approved the use of electronic devices like the taser without preforming ANY human or animal studies. Current case studies show that the use of tazers can have lasting harmful physical conditions and can cause death in individuals who are in good heath and physical condition. Taser international has even stated that electronic weapons should not hit a targets chest due to risk of permanent injury or death.

sources and full articles below

http://emj.bmj.com/content/early/2010/05/31/emj.2009.088468.abstract

SpringerLink - Forensic Science, Medicine, and Pathology, Volume 6, Number 1

http://www.fsijournal.org/article/S0379-0738%2805%2900589-X/abstract

http://www.annemergmed.com/article/S0196-0644(05)81623-3/abstract

http://taser.com/research/Science/Documents/Bleetman TASER safety.pdf

An Animal Model to Investigate Effectiveness and Safety of Conducted Energy Weapons (Including TASER® Devices)* - Jauchem - 2010 - Journal of Forensic Sciences - Wiley Online Library

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.91.2264&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Tasers kill on average 440 people per year. with this taken into consideration use this causes concern when tazers are used in questionable situations. such as use against individuals that could easily be restrained e.g. The old, the infirm, children and adolescents, or any time that the numbers and physical presence of the officers attempting to restrain an individual greatly outweighs the capacity of individual resisting restraint.

 

[rmabrey]

The US Consumer Product Safety Commission approved the use of electronic devices like the taser without preforming ANY human or animal studies. Current case studies show that the use of tazers can have lasting harmful physical conditions and can cause death in individuals who are in good heath and physical condition. Taser international has even stated that electronic weapons should not hit a targets chest due to risk of permanent injury or death.

sources and full articles below

http://emj.bmj.com/content/early/2010/05/31/emj.2009.088468.abstract

SpringerLink - Forensic Science, Medicine, and Pathology, Volume 6, Number 1

http://www.fsijournal.org/article/S0379-0738(05)00589-X/abstract

http://www.annemergmed.com/article/S0196-0644(05)81623-3/abstract

http://taser.com/research/Science/Documents/Bleetman TASER safety.pdf

An Animal Model to Investigate Effectiveness and Safety of Conducted Energy Weapons (Including TASER® Devices)* - Jauchem - 2010 - Journal of Forensic Sciences - Wiley Online Library

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.91.2264&rep=rep1&type=pdf

Tasers kill on average 440 people per year. when taken into consideration their use this causes concern when tazers are used in questionable situations. such as use against individuals that could easily be restrained e.g. The old, the infirm, children and adolescents, or any time that the numbers and physical presence of the officers attempting to restrain an individual greatly outweighs the capacity of individual resisting restraint.

Your concern is admirable but you seem to be confusing legal and ethical. You may find it unethical that the woman in the OP was tazed but the law says it was justifiable and legal. Granted it is not always justifiable but those cases are few compared to those that are

 

[hornadylnl]

Sure........I'm not gonna lie, it hurts like Hell.........but it's not lethal without some other issue present. Hell........a static electricity shock you get from a door knob has WAAAAYYYYYY more voltage than the Taser does.

I think you've got it backwards. I think the volts are high and the amperage is extremely low. It's been awhile since I've had electrical safety training but I believe .5 amps can kill you.

 

[The Meach]

Your concern is admirable but you seem to be confusing legal and ethical. You may find it unethical that the woman in the OP was tazed but the law says it was justifiable and legal. Granted it is not always justifiable but those cases are few compared to those that are

I'm not stating by any means that they were in violation of the law. And I have only proposed that the officers in this case acted unethically.

Based on those actions I am making a moral judgment against the officers. As well as stating that the EMT is praiseworthy.

I have defended my position with available facts as well as anecdotal reference and my own personal opinions and minor supposition.

 

[1032JBT]

Have you read every single autopsy report from every year there was 440 "killed" by the Taser (not tazer)? In the vast majority of those cases there were other factors involved.......high levels of narcotics, long periods of flight on foot, long periods of fighting with police, etc. I will conceed that I haven't read the autopsy reports either, but I have read enough legal briefs about a lot of these cases to know there were other factors involved in the vast majority of these deaths and it was not soley the Taser.

Just out of curiosity though.......out of that 440 average deaths per year, how many total deployments of the Taser were done? I honestly don't know, but I'm guessing the number would put the percentage of deaths at most in the single digit range if not lower than that.


You can quote all the "stories" you want, but the fact remains that the most likely injury from a Taser deployment is an injury from a fall.....period. Trust me.......if I honestly thought the Taser was likely to or even had a semi-decent chance to cause death or any serous injury, I would not use it unless the situation called for deadly force and I sure as Hell wouln't have been hit with it.