Our poll - Parking lot bill

[SedahDrol]

Actually, I couldn't possibly disagree more. How do you grant businesses anything? I think a privately owned business should be able to do just about anything they want with their own property as long as it doesn't harm others.

Can I take away your business or home if I want to? No, because it isn't mine and I don't grant you any PRIVATE property. You earned it and you alone own it.

I also believe that any business who has stupid policies, such as, LTCH holders can't keep a loaded handgun in their locked vehicle in the company parking lot, should be boycotted, but I don't necessary agree that we should make a law telling them what to do with their private property. This instance differs a little bit from a normal issue, because it involves our right to keep and bear arms though.

Theres a difference between you and a business. You are a person. A business is intangible. It only exists on paper. Your business can be taken away by the voters and/or zoning commisions. Unfortunately so can your home. Imminent Domain is a *****. Remember we don't own our land, we only "rent" it from the government. A business doens't have any constitutional rights. Only people do. Businesses are granted privileges similar to our rights. Should business be allowed to do whatever they want. Definately, so long as they don't trample on our constitutional rights. A business cannot tell me as an employee that I can't believe in Jesus. they should not be able to deny me the right to bear arms.

You as an individual can deny me access to your property for any reason you desire. But if you own a business and the business is using your property, it cannot deny me entry just because I believe in God. And neither could you, because you relinquished those property rights to the business.

IOW you and the business you own are seperate entities. Ownership in a business implies financial risks and some times other liabilities, depending on the type of business (ie Sole Proprietorship, LLC, corporation).

I hope that's a better explanation.

 

[lashicoN]

You as an individual can deny me access to your property for any reason you desire. But if you own a business and the business is using your property, it cannot deny me entry just because I believe in God. And neither could you, because you relinquished those property rights to the business.quote]

Actually, the way I read it, I can deny you entry into my business for ANY reason I like. If you chose to stay, I can choose to file trespassing charges against you. You can also choose to sue me. We have many choices, but it really does come down to me being able to kick anyone out of my business for any reason I want to, because it is my business and my property.

I, personally, would never kick a person out of my place of business for believing in God, but if they started preaching loudly, causing other customers to leave out of discomfort, I would kick them out. I'm fine with you believing whatever you want, and you're welcome to exercise all of your rights, just don't mess with my profits and you'll always be welcome.

 

[Bill of Rights]

You as an individual can deny me access to your property for any reason you desire. But if you own a business and the business is using your property, it cannot (openly claim to) deny me entry just because I believe in God. And neither could you, because you relinquished those property rights to the business.

Actually, the way I read it, I can deny you entry into my business for ANY reason I like. If you chose to stay, I can choose to file trespassing charges against you. You can also choose to sue me. We have many choices, but it really does come down to me being able to kick anyone out of my business for any reason I want to, because it is my business and my property.

I, personally, would never kick a person out of my place of business for believing in God, but if they started preaching loudly, causing other customers to leave out of discomfort, I would kick them out. I'm fine with you believing whatever you want, and you're welcome to exercise all of your rights, just don't mess with my profits and you'll always be welcome.

Technically, Lash, the reason you're ejecting them is not because of their belief but because they are creating a public nuisance and hurting your business, but yes, I agree, that person is making him/herself unwelcome by his/her actions. I added the parenthetical, blue, underlined portion above to SedahDrol's post to actually make it correct because you hit it: "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason."

If someone walked into my business who for whatever reason I did not want there, that person would be told to leave. If I had to give a reason (and I don't), I could easily say that I didn't like his shirt. I can deny someone entry because s/he is fat, skinny, brunette, blond, has a big nose, has small breasts, whatever. I just can't openly claim that my reason is because of their race, creed, color, religion, gender, or national origin.

I also bear the responsibility of that reason for denying them entry; if they or others of whatever group I've claimed I don't like choose to boycott and/or picket my business, I opened that can of worms. A couple of years ago, I was looking at the various states that don't accept our LTCH as valid within their borders. Of those 24, 14 don't accept anyone else, either. Of the ten remaining who accept some, just not ours, I found West Virginia whose law state(d?/s?) that all that was required was for the two states to enter into a reciprocity agreement. I dug a little further and found that they also recognized PA, which, like Indiana, does not have some silly and unConstitutional "training requirement". I immediately began pursuing what avenues I could to get that agreement signed.
The long and short of it was, after about a year, I finally got an answer that they would recognize PA and not us because PA's internal laws were more strict than ours. I don't like their reason, but it's their party and their rules. I have no recourse in someone else's state with regard to their laws. Ultimately, it doesn't affect me anyway; even if I did travel to WV with any regularity, I hold a UT CFP, so I'm good to go on that.

I would also say that it's interesting that the point of refusal of entry for holding a belief in God was raised by someone whose forum name, reversed, is "lord hades". I'm just sayin'...

Blessings,
Bill

 

[IndyBeerman]

Conceptually, if my company were to grow in size, and I had to allow this, I may have to:

1)Pay for better more thorough background checks prior to pre-employment.

A background check only tells you of about the prospective employee actions before he is hired. It will not tell you what he is capable of. For that you'd need a physiological evaluation.

2)Address additional security features possibly a manned security and metal detection.

So the proven fact the LTCH people are among the most law abiding citizens around is thrown out the window.

3)Pay to have the additional insurances that are sure to come along - if workplace insurance has to cover the concept of something bad happening - they'll make you buy it.

Insurance companies will try to gouge the last so they can add to their profit margin, regardless of the reason.

4)Sweat like a pig everytime I have to let someone go - warranted or not - it's a fact of business.

If he plans on shooting the place up, not having in the car won't matter, they will just go home and return. See above, if you're that worried make it a standard practice to include a physiological evaluation for pre-hire

5)Next time the government wants me to do something on my property against my wishes, this will set a good precedent.

Let's look at this in a real life scenario. You creating a no firearm policy and stressing to a employee that he cannot carry a firearm to and from work, leaves work only to be carjacked 1 block away and died without a chance to defend himself. How would you feel? How could you look into a mirror each and every day knowing that YOU took away his chance to defend himself and leaving behind a grieving family.

So some of the larger companies will be hogtied into putting more money into security rather than a workforce or productive tools to help them grow. It's a stretch - but this is MY PARKING LOT. My few workers that I have are good guys (I'd trust them to have a gun in their cars), the point is: nobody should be telling me what to do on my property.

 

[bigmedicine]

This entire point is secondary. Let's really put the matter up front. Lets first allow businesses to dictate who we vote for and what church we go to. Then lets move "on" to the second amendment. I think we should forfeit all our individual rights for the "rights" of a business. NOT!

 

[AR154ME]

I've always kept mine in the car while at work for years and my employer knows this. They will have no problem with this law if it passes.