Opting out of SS

[jsgolfman]

I thought it was about Ida and her love of bacon.

 

[evansvillethompsongunner]

Oh, no, not the sovereign state citizenship silliness again! I thought Southerners only believed in that stuff.

Next we'll be talking about fringe on the flag.

Gilded fringe on the edges of some flags?

Those are flown/masted in admiralty courts, are they not?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Those are flown/masted in admiralty courts, are they not?

Not exclusively.

It's just that everytime this nonsense about "opting out of (income taxes, social security, inter alia)" comes up, we always hear about real "fringe" nonsense.

People are always looking for magic wands or secrets rather than doing the hard work of changing the law.

 

[RelicHound]

Not exclusively.

It's just that everytime this nonsense about "opting out of (income taxes, social security, inter alia)" comes up, we always hear about real "fringe" nonsense.

People are always looking for magic wands or secrets rather than doing the hard work of changing the law.

what! you mean there are no cheat codes for real life!?!?!

 

[jsgolfman]

UpUpDownDownLeftRightLeftRightBASelectStart

 

[CarmelHP]

Not exclusively.

It's just that everytime this nonsense about "opting out of (income taxes, social security, inter alia)" comes up, we always hear about real "fringe" nonsense.

People are always looking for magic wands or secrets rather than doing the hard work of changing the law.

But, but....the fringe on the flag is real....isn't it?

 

[clt46910]

There was a guy in Silver Lake a few years back that did this for about eight years, He is now living rent free for the next ten years courtesy of Uncle Sam. If I remember correctly, he still has to pay his back taxes when he gets out.

I know another guy. Single guy I use to work with. Claimed lots of depends and got most all his tax money back. I think he told me he been doing it for about 7 or 8 years. That was about 12 years ago. Not sure if he got caught yet or not.

I have never hear of anyone successfully doing this.

 

[WHAT HAPPENED]

TEA PARTIES AND Social Security and Medicare....

READ

Dems Launch Anti-Tea Party Ad Campaign | The FOX Nation

The Tea Party Is Over

Dem panic! Anti-tea-party ads tied to Obama eligibility

KEEP DRINKING THE KOOL AID.....

 

[SavageEagle]

Wow, you guys can't have an intellectual discussion about this for nothing can you? You can't sit here and try to find a way to do something about this. This guy wants to right a wrong and you guys bash him for it. Is it because you're getting or about to get SS and you don't want him making waves? Or is it that you guys can't stand the thought of someone going against the grain?

Sure, they made this a "law" 100 years ago. Just because people are used to slavery doesn't make slavery right. OBVIOUSLY there are ways to opt out of SS (which will be broke soon anyway and NO ONE will get benefits. Even YOU) but you guys continue to site more and more court cases that uphold what we all know is tyranny. Courts upheld the Chicago and D.C. Handgun bans. I guess those are laws that we should follow without question.

There's just a couple problems here. People in our government are willing, reluctant, but willing to look at the Gun Bans and overturn them. However, any time someone tries to challenge the IRS, the government locks them up without question and you people are DEFENDING THAT! :wtf:

WHAT HAPPEN nice list of facts. I am not disputing them and have heard of some especially how the 1913 stuff was never really ratified by the STATES. At this point, however, be it true or not it makes no difference as at least 3 generations & close to 100 years have passed since the "lie" has continued that it would take the "act" we are not allowed to talk about to change this. Those 3 generations have grown and lived to believe that the income tax is legal and to them it **IS** since that is all they have known.

Again, just because someone grows up believing something is true, doesn't make it the truth. People went for thousands of years believing the earth was flat. But they were wrong. However, you were put to death for challenging that. And the sheep supported this.

 

[dross]

Wow, you guys can't have an intellectual discussion about this for nothing can you? You can't sit here and try to find a way to do something about this. This guy wants to right a wrong and you guys bash him for it. Is it because you're getting or about to get SS and you don't want him making waves? Or is it that you guys can't stand the thought of someone going against the grain?

Sure, they made this a "law" 100 years ago. Just because people are used to slavery doesn't make slavery right. OBVIOUSLY there are ways to opt out of SS (which will be broke soon anyway and NO ONE will get benefits. Even YOU) but you guys continue to site more and more court cases that uphold what we all know is tyranny. Courts upheld the Chicago and D.C. Handgun bans. I guess those are laws that we should follow without question.

There's just a couple problems here. People in our government are willing, reluctant, but willing to look at the Gun Bans and overturn them. However, any time someone tries to challenge the IRS, the government locks them up without question and you people are DEFENDING THAT! :wtf:



Again, just because someone grows up believing something is true, doesn't make it the truth. People went for thousands of years believing the earth was flat. But they were wrong. However, you were put to death for challenging that. And the sheep supported this.

The lack of intellectual discussion isn't coming from those of us disagreeing, SE.

The guy asked what people thought. This isn't new to some of us, I've been hearing this stuff about the ratification of the income tax amendment, and the other arguments for a long time. They simply don't have merit.

The other side of this coin is that people here in the legal profession are telling the guy, that right or wrong, he's going to lose in court. Why? Because everyone else who has ever tried it has lost. This created precedent, which then other courts honor.

As as far as I know, this thread was not about the rightness or wrongness of SS. In my opinion, it's wrong. So are many, many other laws in IMO. I'll talk all day about why I think it's wrong. I'll also laugh at people who pretend to want to know what others think, then pull out a college roommate to counter cites from court cases that actually deal with the issue.

Personally, I think that though slavery was wrong, the South was unconstiutionally prevented from seceding. Should I challenge that in court? Perhaps, though of course I would lose. I only begin to look foolish when I refuse to take into account the reality of the situation, insisting that I know someone who knows someone, who found out that states can actually secede, because the Civil War was unconstitutional.

We can have an intellectual discussion. Let's start with someone from the other side's analysis of the court cases CarmelHP was kind enough to look up and post.

 

[Will0369]

Yeah I wanna say this will go real real real bad for you, not that I believe in social security in any way, but seriously, its not a lot of money.

 

[CarmelHP]

Wow, you guys can't have an intellectual discussion about this for nothing can you? You can't sit here and try to find a way to do something about this. This guy wants to right a wrong and you guys bash him for it.

If he wants to try to change the law we'll help and applaud him. We've tried to change the law. We haven't been successful. He wants to pretend the law doesn't exist. That's OK, but there are consequences. He asked what we thought, we kindly told him and he didn't like it. Well.....too bad. No matter what someone's crazy cousin or 12 toed brother-in-law thinks, it is what it is.

 

[evansvillethompsongunner]

Not exclusively.

It's just that everytime this nonsense about "opting out of (income taxes, social security, inter alia)" comes up, we always hear about real "fringe" nonsense.

People are always looking for magic wands or secrets rather than doing the hard work of changing the law.

Well, yes, I don't quite buy into the supposed martial-law-gilded-fringe crowd, but I know personally two people who have successfully withdrawn from the Social Security program, so I know for a fact that it is possible to do so.

As for the larger beast of Internal Revenue.... no one escapes the IRS for long. I have heard some persuasive arguments against the IRS (in particular the Sixteenth Amendment and Article I of the Constitution), but none of the arguments ever hold up in court. Wesley Snipes had some damned good points, in my opinion... but the court did not agree with him.

I've yet to meet anyone who's successfully become a Sovereign Individual... then again, if I were to achieve that sadly-almost-impossible task, I sure as hell wouldn't tell anyone, either, lest I be bothered again by Statists.

While I am inherently distrustful of the State, claims made against the State must too be supported evidentially.

 

[SavageEagle]

If he wants to try to change the law we'll help and applaud him. We've tried to change the law. We haven't been successful. He wants to pretend the law doesn't exist. That's OK, but there are consequences. He asked what we thought, we kindly told him and he didn't like it. Well.....too bad. No matter what someone's crazy cousin or 12 toed brother-in-law thinks, it is what it is.

Well, see, that's the problem. You guys act like there's NO WAY around paying SS, but....

Well, yes, I don't quite buy into the supposed martial-law-gilded-fringe crowd, but I know personally two people who have successfully withdrawn from the Social Security program, so I know for a fact that it is possible to do so.

...three people have spoken up for those who HAVE beat the system. So to tell WHAT HAPPENED that it's not possible to stop paying SS legally is worse than false information. It is in fact playing into the hands of the system.

Of COURSE the courts will rule in favor of the government on this! Where do you think their paychecks come from?!?! Imagine that...

 

[evansvillethompsongunner]

Well, see, that's the problem. You guys act like there's NO WAY around paying SS, but....



...three people have spoken up for those who HAVE beat the system. So to tell WHAT HAPPENED that it's not possible to stop paying SS legally is worse than false information. It is in fact playing into the hands of the system.

Of COURSE the courts will rule in favor of the government on this! Where do you think their paychecks come from?!?! Imagine that...

Yeah... once you stop feeding the Beast, it dies.

Money is the food of the Beast. Once you stop letting them drain your paycheck, and if everyone, in tandem, were to REFUSE to feed it, it would die - quickly. Government can't function without implementation of revenue-enhancement - taxes in particular.

I'm so conservative regarding government spending, I get hounded incessantly by Statists... which is that government spending and taxation from which such spending derives is nothing but socialism, pure and simple - it is money earned legitimately by the people of a district or State which is then, through edict of the Congress, then spent and often (mis-)allocated elsewhere.

Hell, Vermont is considering secession due to only receiving $.75 on the dollar for each dollar paid in SSI/Medicare/Medicaid taxes. Imagine giving someone a dollar - and being told you'd be paid back - only to receive seventy-five cents and then TOLD that you've now been paid back in full, square and even. You wouldn't put up with that, and neither would I, on individual levels. But each and every day, and each and every year, we all put up with taxation without receiving a fair amount back - or even a pittance of what we have put in just so the government can function. All monies collected from each district/State/locale should be spent within it... this whole philosophy of "everyone put in your money, and then we'll spend it and may or may not shaft you in the process of spending it" is for the birds..... and for Statists, apparently.

 

[Fargo]

Well, see, that's the problem. You guys act like there's NO WAY around paying SS, but....

Oh, there is a way around paying SS for the average person, but unfortunately it generally falls under the heading of "tax evasion." I prefer to think that I act like I just don't WANT to go to federal prison.

...three people have spoken up for those who HAVE beat the system. It is in fact playing into the hands of the system.

Yeah, "beat the system," that was what happened. The guy who jacked my laptop out of my car also "beat the system" since they never found him. I have a funny feeling that the courts would treat your "opt outers" the same way they would treat him if they found out.

So to tell WHAT HAPPENED that it's not possible to stop paying SS legally is worse than false information.

Really? Tell me how it is that I can LEGALLY opt out in such a fashion as to not expose me to time in the federal can. Remember, your personal declarations that a law is unconstitutional is not going to carry too much weight when I'm in front of a federal judge so lets try to avoid that argument.

Of COURSE the courts will rule in favor of the government on this! Where do you think their paychecks come from?!?! Imagine that...

Yeah, and those court's rulings that it is illegal can't put me in federal prison. Can they?

 

[SavageEagle]

Well then I guess it would be pointless to try to change things since everyone's to chicken to do so. Oh looky, it's almost payday. Get ready to bend over. Farther... Farther...

 

[evansvillethompsongunner]

Oh, there is a way around paying SS for the average person, but unfortunately it generally falls under the heading of "tax evasion." I prefer to think that I act like I just don't WANT to go to federal prison.

Yeah, "beat the system," that was what happened. The guy who jacked my laptop out of my car also "beat the system" since they never found him. I have a funny feeling that the courts would treat your "opt outers" the same way they would treat him if they found out.

Really? Tell me how it is that I can LEGALLY opt out in such a fashion as to not expose me to time in the federal can. Remember, your personal declarations that a law is unconstitutional is not going to carry too much weight when I'm in front of a federal judge so lets try to avoid that argument.

Yeah, and those court's rulings that it is illegal can't put me in federal prison. Can they?

May your chains set lightly upon you.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

Well then I guess it would be pointless to try to change things since everyone's to chicken to do so. Oh looky, it's almost payday. Get ready to bend over. Farther... Farther...

C'mon, Ryan! Chicken? Just like I fight anti-RKBA laws/rules from the inside, I prefer to do the same with fighting against taxes from the inside.

Being unwilling to go to jail over taxes is like saying that I am afraid to commit murder because of the current laws. Your statement above totally negates actions taken to change what I see as wrong with government today for whatever reason you chose to post it.

I wouldn't do well in prison. I'm not going to go to prison.

 

[Yeah]

I didn't pay any SS tax last year, but I also had no income. I also have several neighbors who do not, but they are all Amish.

How many people in this thread do not pay? Not friends of people in the thread or the like, just people actually in the thread?