Online versus Buying local

[Vigilant]

It still ends up being cheaper online as most ship free and no sales tax. I'd love to support local but if price is not right, I'll still go online, unless they price match and include the transfer fee, then I'll be willing to pay of the sales tax here. It's business.

Legally, you are still required to pay a 7% "use tax" on online purchases? I have to file online purchases on my business, and personal taxes every year, to account for that.(that I didn't used to do before my accountant told me so, ANYTHING, to keep from an audit!)

 

[MohawkSlim]

a viable gunstore can't stay open making 25 dollars for 30 min worth of work.

No, but that gives viable gun stores the opportunity to make $25 for shelling out no money on inventory.

If a gun store must pay $500 to make $25 on a sale it may not be worth it for them. On the other hand, if the customer is willing to pay the $500 and the store still makes the $25 (via transfer as opposed to carrying inventory) they've now just increased their profit margin since there was no requirement to purchase inventory.

I'm not arguing your point of transfers only won't keep the doors open. That's true in most instances. However, an established store that's selling guns and accessories or other "stuff" (like a sporting goods store or bait shop, pawn shop, etc.) basically gets transfer money with the only investment needed being the FFL itself and the time required for an employee to sign the guns in and out. A transfer or two each day doesn't keep the lights on but it adds up pretty quick. It also allows internet-savvy customers to shop how they'd like and the LGS to keep it's doors open in a symbiotic relationship since transfers are federally mandated.

I'd posit there shouldn't be an "either or" position. There should be true capitalism in the form of, "If there's a better deal here, I'll take it." But the requirement for transfer almost requires supporting a local LGS in some capacity lest there will be nowhere to conduct your transfer in the future. Is it worth getting a better deal on an internet order if you have to drive 45 minutes to pick it up... and still pay a $35 transfer fee?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Again, why don't you or the OP pony up your own, or SBA money, and build what you would like for someone else to do for you?

This is a strawman argument. The people that are driving customers away are the ones doing it. I (and others that pefer to do business with on-line vendors) are not driving ourselves away. It's not because we think we can do it better. Likely, like me, they have other talents that are best suited doing what they do. I worked in retail once, a long time ago, and know it's not for me. But I also know a bad shopping experience when I encounter it.

You know, this kind of reminds me of the 1970's and 80's when GM, Ford, and Chrysler were losing market share, when the Japanese companies were changing the car buying markets. For too long, the old Big 3 and their dealers, ignored what their customers were telling them and when they had a choice, they voted with their feet by exploiting those other car buying options. Gun shop owners, history is repeating itself. It's a little different, in that the product isn't driving people away, it's the avenues open to completing the sale are giving them options.

I don't relish anybody crashing and burning, I buy American made whenever I can; I'll buy from local businesses when I can...but I'm not going to subsidize their poor business acumen, slip-shod and/or unfair treatment of me as a customer, with my money.

 

[wtburnette]

This is a strawman argument. The people that are driving customers away are the ones doing it. I (and others that pefer to do business with on-line vendors) are not driving ourselves away. It's not because we think we can do it better. Likely, like me, they have other talents that are best suited doing what they do. I worked in retail once, a long time ago, and know it's not for me. But I also know a bad shopping experience when I encounter it.

You know, this kind of reminds me of the 1970's and 80's when GM, Ford, and Chrysler were losing market share, when the Japanese companies were changing the car buying markets. For too long, the old Big 3 and their dealers, ignored what their customers were telling them and when they had a choice, they voted with their feet by exploiting those other car buying options. Gun shop owners, history is repeating itself. It's a little different, in that the product isn't driving people away, it's the avenues open to completing the sale are giving them options.

I don't relish anybody crashing and burning, I buy American made whenever I can; I'll buy from local businesses when I can...but I'm not going to subsidize their poor business acumen, slip-shod and/or unfair treatment of me, as a customer.

Well said sir!

 

[Vigilant]

This is a strawman argument. The people that are driving customers away are the ones doing it. I (and others that pefer to do business with on-line vendors) are not driving ourselves away. It's not because we think we can do it better. Likely, like me, they have other talents that are best suited doing what they do. I worked in retail once, a long time ago, and know it's not for me. But I also know a bad shopping experience when I encounter it.

You know, this kind of reminds me of the 1970's and 80's when GM, Ford, and Chrysler were losing market share, when the Japanese companies were changing the car buying markets. For too long, the old Big 3 and their dealers, ignored what their customers were telling them and when they had a choice, they voted with their feet by exploiting those other car buying options. Gun shop owners, history is repeating itself. It's a little different, in that the product isn't driving people away, it's the avenues open to completing the sale are giving them options.

I don't relish anybody crashing and burning, I buy American made whenever I can; I'll buy from local businesses when I can...but I'm not going to subsidize their poor business acumen, slip-shod and/or unfair treatment of me as a customer, with my money.

Strawman, as in assuming the only reason people do business online is bad experiences at LGS's, when in actuality, most of it is about cheaper, cheaper, cheaper? Goin get back through, yes, there were a few that shop online due to bad experiences, but most of the online shoppers, and those that agree, used something like, wherever the best deal is, or whichever was cheaper.

 

[17 squirrel]

Like I have stated here and in other threads, alot of folks should be business owners, then some things would be a " High Karate " slap in the face.
Later...

 

[wtburnette]

Problem is, you don't have to be a business owner to know good customer service. A lot of gun shops are terrible at customer service, or only good at it for a select few customers. The fact that I have no desire to go into business doesn't change that fact at all.

 

[Bapak2ja]

It makes me happy that you understand that you can't operate a gun store, most will not admit that.
But also understand that a viable gunstore can't stay open making 25 dollars for 30 min worth of work.
The guy mowing your lawn has a better profit margin... ( not jabbing the lawn guy )

Just for the record, the guy doing my FFL for $25 makes a good living doing something else. He does not not run a gun store. He signed up as FFL to make a little cash on the side to finance his gun hobby.

Also, I only have to drive five minutes to reach him. In fact, if I wanted I can make there in ten minutes on my bicycle.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Strawman, as in assuming the only reason people do business online is bad experiences at LGS's, when in actuality, most of it is about cheaper, cheaper, cheaper? Goin get back through, yes, there were a few that shop online due to bad experiences, but most of the online shoppers, and those that agree, used something like, wherever the best deal is, or whichever was cheaper.

So? It's their money, they are being good consumers by acting in their own self-interest. Had people shunned Toyota, Datsun, and Honda back in the day, we'd still be stuck with crappy Fords that had to be overhauled by the time they had 100K miles on them. Instead, they didn't. They flocked to a better buying experience and in turn, it forced the Chevy's and Fords to up their game. And just like the old Big 3, assuming they find new angles like Applied Ballistics mentioned above did, many will probably hang on...and I hope the good ones do. I wish there were more of them--competition is a good thing.

 

[17 squirrel]

Just for the record, the guy doing my FFL for $25 makes a good living doing something else. He does not not run a fund store. He signed up as FFL to make a little cash on the side to finance his gun hobby.

Since you opened the conversation, ask your part timer if he actually has business insurance ? Does he pay taxes on the transfers that he does ?

I can go on and on....

Edit.... I took a retraction for running off at the keyboard..

 

[Vigilant]

Problem is, you don't have to be a business owner to know good customer service. A lot of gun shops are terrible at customer service, or only good at it for a select few customers.

And there is no excuse for that. On the converse side, when you own a business, and have to put up with three to one "customers" ( as in three race you to zero, to one, make me a reasonable deal) I can see where at some point, "customer" service could start to wane. Again, my argument isn't the ones that are pissed because they felt they were slighted or treated bad, I argue that MOST online buyers are there for the best price, hence my continued harping on the "race to zero"!

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

The conversation here is about viable brick and mortar business's..
Not the part timer that does a transfer on his kitchen table.
Since you opened the conversation, ask your part timer if he actually has business insurance ? Does he pay taxes on the transfers that he does ?

I can go on and on....

No the conversation is the rationale for buying one way over the other. Then someone always asked 'well, what are you going to do when the B & M stores are no longer around?' To that, there are options. And one of those options is dealing with on-line vendors and local FFL guys to do your transfers.

I don't know if the kitchen table FFL guy is complying with every law when I do business with him nor do I know if a B & M store guy is complying either. If you believe they're not, using your logic, report them to the officials.

 

[17 squirrel]

No the conversation is the rationale for buying one way over the other. Then someone always asked 'well, what are you going to do when the B & M stores are no longer around?' To that, there are options. And one of those options is dealing with on-line vendors and local FFL guys to do your transfers.

You are correct, my apologies sir..

 

[Vigilant]

No the conversation is the rationale for buying one way over the other. Then someone always asked 'well, what are you going to do when the B & M stores are no longer around?' To that, there are options. And one of those options is dealing with on-line vendors and local FFL guys to do your transfers.

I don't know if the kitchen table FFL guy is complying with every law when I do business with him nor do I know if a B & M store guy is complying either. If you believe they're not, using your logic, report them to the officials.

I was probably the B&M guy(that sound so dirty), but, it's no secret that the kitchen table dealer is very frowned upon, and if the B&M's go away, and you're stuck with Kitchen Table Kurt, who may or may not be on vacation, in the hospital, or just doesn't want to mess with you right then, or for another two weeks... I concede, the race to zero has been won.

 

[Bapak2ja]

You are correct, my apologies sir..

Respect.

 

[hps]

Strictly online for me, I'm buying/saving for me!

 

[mammynun]

Buds is not the end all, I believe there still is a few other gun / archery shops in Lexington... Just because Bud's has 150+ employees and a 200,000 sq ft building his prices can't be matched or beat is some cases. And i dont believe Buds stocks all makes and models of firearms availible in the USA.
Buds has a heck of alot of overhead he has to pay every week.

My point was more along the lines of all the internet/online vendors are local in some respect, to someone. This was an admittedly poor way to advance the notion that the internet has forced change on all types of businesses, not just guns/ammo/accessories. I'm not saying that this is necessarily a good thing, but it IS a thing.

Many, if not most, businesses have had to tweak or completely revamp their business model in response to the internet. The trick is to know when and how. I would argue that most LGS's have failed in both respects. The ones that haven't failed are the ones we all know the names of... without consulting the evil internet, can you name another gun store in Lexington? I can't. Bud's adapted at the right time in a way that works. Others will not,but I'm confident that someone will fill the space in the market if the customer demands it.

If I were to open an LGS, I can't think of a better place than the Tangiers Outlet Mall combined with a heavy internet presence.

 

[Nate@TeamAB]

I dig Vigilant's "race to zero".

More more more for less less less is the name of the game. It's funny how some people that I know will stand firm and make a noble point to make sure that Wal-Mart doesn't get a penny of their hard earned money. However, they'll buy a gun from Big Box Store #1 and order their ammo online from Big Box Store #2 in the name of saving $6. One could argue that those stores are the same as the Evil Empire Wal-Mart that they despise crushing the Mom & Pop Stores, or LGS in this case, that they claim to defend.

 

[17 squirrel]

. without consulting the evil internet, can you name another gun store in Lexington? I can't.

Well I have no choice but to hit the webs yellow pages, I am geographically undesirable to know the local gun stores in Lexington, KY.

We will start with,
Sling Point.
Leach Gunsmithing and Firearms.
Kentucky Firearms.
Evans Firearms.
Antique and Modern Firearms.
Classic Arms.
Doctors Outfitters.

Is that enough ??

 

[Hiker1911]

Buying local where there is no layaway policy looks to be a better deal than a local store that does offers layaway. Interesting correlation!