OK folks, tear me a new one

[Fletch]

I gave some thought to the fact that we're probably going to have gun control in perpetuity, given the weasel words in the ruling. Here's my take:

Gun control I could live with

 

[indyjoe]

My biggest problem with registration is something that most anti's will label me a conspiracy theorist for having. Fighting against tyranny of government. The biggest advantage that we can have for that is the lack of registration on many of the weapons. They would not be able to get them all.

If we submit to a full registration, the next thing that comes is a full gun grabs. That is what history has shown us. That is why I am apposed to registration. Am I paranoid? Sure. Am I paranoid enough? I don't know.

Who is to say a national "emergency" doesn't come up and we get a nationwide, unconstitutional gun grab, ala Katrina?

 

[Fletch]

Yep, valid point.

 

[jontheturboguy]

The only thing registration does is tell the government who and where to disarm.

Guns used by criminals to commit crimes are MOSTLY STOLEN.

 

[Fletch]

I don't disagree.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Registration merely gives governments and criminals shopping lists.

Further it is an unlawful tax and prior restraint on a fundamental individual right, just as First Amendment taxes and registration has been so ruled to be.

 

[turkeykiller]

I think we don't understand their fight. They know we wont give up are rights all at once. If they can take a little at a time so it won't be noticed or hurt so bad that's what they want!
NO GUN CONTROL! NONE!!!!!

 

[haldir]

I think one of our British cousins on here said just a few days ago that that was how they had rounded up the guns over there. They used the registration lists that had been accumulated before. About half of my guns have no paperwork on them, so I would certainly never list them on their registry.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Not going to tear you a new one. I will point out some fallacies; take them or leave them, your choice.

The power to tax is the power to destroy. If gov't can tax ("registration fee") the RKBA, then it takes a mere majority of legislators and an unfriendly executive (to us) to change that reg. fee to the exorbitant amounts to which you alluded.

Further, it takes a similar stroke of a bureaucratic pen to change the guidelines (as I've noted here before) from "five rounds in the A zone" to "fifty rounds in the triangle on the upper half of the A" or the distance from "10 yards" to "1000 yards".

As you pointed out, we don't stop building tall buildings because some are afraid of heights. To this I add that we don't stop making scary movies because some people are scared OF them-those people choose not to go up in those buildings or choose not to go to those movies. Those people do NOT have the right to force us to wear chains around our necks preventing the making or attending of those movies or patronage of those buildings, and neither of those things is a right. We also do not ban matches and lighters because some members of society are arsonists. Scared sheep do not have the right to enslave or to disarm me because of their own fear.

License guns like cars? Sure. I can buy any car I can afford. I can buy as many of them as I can afford. I can buy 50 cars a month, every month, if I have the money. I don't need a background check or fingerprints on file to do so. I don't need gov't permission to do so, so clearly, I don't have to wait for my "permit". I don't need gov't permission to USE that car so long as it does not leave my property. I can park any car I choose at a school, a gov't building, or on any public street. There is no "waiting period" from when I decide to buy it until I can pick it up. There are no restrictions on what type of fuel I put in my car(s). I cannot be sued if someone breaks into my garage and steals my car and uses it to mow down a schoolyard full of kids. If I choose to take any of my cars across state lines, I can do so whenever I choose-even Illinois. If I want to sell them across state lines, I don't have to go to a Federally licensed auto seller to transfer them to another similarly licensed seller in the other state before my buyer can take possession.

Note that with over 100 years of auto licensing, there are still many orders more accidents with cars than with guns, despite there being (estimated) more guns than there are cars in the US.

The problem is not the guns. Controlling spoons won't prevent obesity.

Disarming innocent people does not protect innocent people.

Blessings,
B

 

[Soundslikejosh]

Wow. I want to put Bill of Rights in one of those old cars with the huge speakers on top and drive him around a few neighborhoods. Well said! I think its a great skill to be able to articulate these thoughts, and personally I get so pissed about it sometimes that I cant think clearly, let alone speak clearly. I just get fumbled up by people stupidity on this issue. Great job Bill, I like the angle you've taken.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Wow. I want to put Bill of Rights in one of those old cars with the huge speakers on top and drive him around a few neighborhoods. Well said! I think its a great skill to be able to articulate these thoughts, and personally I get so pissed about it sometimes that I cant think clearly, let alone speak clearly. I just get fumbled up by people stupidity on this issue. Great job Bill, I like the angle you've taken.

Yer gonna make me all embarrassed now...

Seriously, thank you, SoundsLikeJosh, I appreciate the kind words. I get pissed about stuff, too, but no one's going to listen when you scream. FWIW... that post took a bit of editing before anyone else saw it.

It's also not 100% original, but a restating of things I've read all over the net and agree with as making sense. I'll take a bit of credit for putting them together, but that's the extent of it. I didn't reinvent the wheel, I just rearranged the tread on the tire.

Blessings,
B

 

[Fletch]

No arguments here.

 

[Feign]

Rep points for that BoR.

 

[Santee]

No registration, no way. When gov knows what you have, they know where to get them, if registry happens, then those not registered are considered illegal, and the gov will bust your ass for having them. None of Uncle Sugar's damn business what kind nor how many weapons I have.

No training sessions, mostly this excludes those who cannot afford the cost, time or travel. Training is and should remain the responsibility of the individual. Just like cops, when the **** hits the fan, shooting a paper target will mean less than the fart before the turd.

Licensing should be for open or concealed. I do not like licensing, because again it becomes burdensome to the poor. Should not really be a fee for licensing, since you should not have to pay for the exercising of a constitutional right. This is something the states want, not the citizen, thus no fee should be charged. And licensing should be strictly on the 'shall issue' at no one's discretion. It should be completely dependent upon the background check, with no local interference. And those who only use their weapons for home defense and not for carry purposes should need no type of license.
The right to bear arms, should be for anywhere the citizen happens to be. Law-abiding citizens are the least likely to cause trouble and should be recognized as such. And again, as stressed above, there should be no cost involved in the exercising of the 2nd Amendment right, other than the expense of the weapon, ammo and rig for carrying them.

There are many other restrictions which should be placed on the state and federal government because of the 2nd Amendment's "shall not be infringed' clause. It is not the citizen who is to be restricted, but rather, any branch of government, local, state and federal.

 

[Fletch]

No registration, no way. When gov knows what you have, they know where to get them, if registry happens, then those not registered are considered illegal, and the gov will bust your ass for having them. None of Uncle Sugar's damn business what kind nor how many weapons I have.

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment... it seems to me that the vast reams of form 4473's accumulated in the last 40 years constitute a de facto registration system. It's just held in the records of gun shops rather than at a government office. The ATF has the right to go paw through those records, so this seems like a rather useless distinction.

And since NICS went into effect, they have a registry of gun buyers. Don't exactly need a registry of guns, all they have to do is show up and say "you bought some guns. Where are they?"

So... with 40 years of one kind of registration, and 10 years of another... why haven't we seen more confiscation? Why aren't we gun owners up in arms over these forms of stealth registration, but go ballistic any time overt registration is mentioned? Why haven't we taken the NRA to task for supporting the NICS? Why hasn't GOA or some other more ideologically pure organization supplanted the NRA as the "go to" guys for defense of gun rights?

 

[Santee]

Fletch:

Do not know about you, but I have firearms that are not on the books anywhere,,,,,,, Do not know about you, but I do not want any type of gov snooping into my affairs. If I buy a new weapon, like you, I know that the record is there.

 

[Fletch]

I have one, but it's in such an obscure caliber as to be a moot point.

My point here is not, as some have apparently thought, to advocate a formal system of licensing and registration. Personally I think they're a horrible and useless idea. I'm just wondering how much is really worth worrying myself into a cardiac episode over.

 

[Coach]

The problems spoken of in this thread fail to address the real problem. It is not as though the govt. is some evil organization out there working independently of the people. Nearly half the people in this country are afraid of your guns and mine. Not because they should be. It is an irrational fear and the govt. is expected to save them. Blame the sheep with no spine.

 

[Benny]

Very nice post Bill...My sentiments exactly.

There is also no reggy on the fuel for those 50 cars a month you are going to be buying, or those kitchen knives that any guy/gal can go into a store and buy before being old enough to even drive a car.

Granted, it is easier to kill someone with a gun than with a knife, but given the right circumstances, you could run through more people with a knife than a gun(ie, rock concert or even a big building when lots of cubicles or offices where being quiet would be to your advantage).

And don't get me started on gasoline...The possibilities are abundant to say the least.

Are we registering those? Last time I checked, we aren't...But even if we were, would it matter? You are still going to just have that 1 out of 500,000,000 wacko that doesn't care if his killing device is registered or not and he's going to do some damage with it.



BTW Fletch, thanks for posting...I'll never be uncivil with someone that doesn't see eye-to-eye with me, but I will have a civil debate 'til the cows come home.

 

[4sarge]

The only thing registration does is tell the government who and where to disarm.

Guns used by criminals to commit crimes are MOSTLY STOLEN.

Also gives burglars a list and description of your guns. Registration is not necessary and should be unlawful. Do you register your fishing gear, tools or kitchen knives. Guns were originally sold in hardware stores and that practice continued until the 60's. Sears, Montgomery Ward etc all had house brand guns that were available by catalog or in the store for immediate purchase. Blame the hysteria over the JFK assassination for that. Government overreaction to a perceived problem and just as successful as LBJ's "War on Poverty". We have allowed Big Government to Usurp Our Rights as Citizens. Give up the guns and Free Speech is next.


We have allowed the Government to regulate and mystify a tool.