Obamacare: Say goodnight, Gracie...

[jamil]

Absolutely not. The free market will take care of that.

Most folks have no idea how deep Obamacare goes. The FDA makes the IRS look like nice guys and they have everyone even remotely associated with the medical field by the short hairs. Their overreach has been extended many, many, many times over with Obamacare.

That is just one govt regulating agency buried in that plan that we passed before we read. Take the gov't getting theirs and all the corruption that goes with it out of the picture. That's just scratching the surface.

Take hoosierdoc's malpractice insurance out of the loop. Now the hospital's insane legal costs that get built into our bill before we even walk in. Not to mention all of that same stuff for every medical device, glove, waist can and aspirin that comes into the place.

Then why did the free market not take care of it before Obamacare? I'll answer that for you. Before Obamacare there was not a free market. The "replacement" of Obamacare is to fix that. It will take more legislation to get government out of healthcare than simply repealing Obamacare.

 

[Alpo]

Profit motivation does not necessarily drive research into diseases pari passu. Diseases, and citizens in these groups, are neglected. Perhaps that is OK with some, but an industry that can spend over $3 billion on erectile dysfunction might not have the ideal priority for society at large, free market notwithstanding.

And though you might believe that all pharmaceutical companies would act in the best interests of their customers, a recent example (Theranos) clearly shows priorities not in the public interest. Then there was Thalidomide, DES and many other cases where humans make errors that egregiously affect their customers and their offspring.

 

[bwframe]

Then why did the free market not take care of it before Obamacare? I'll answer that for you. Before Obamacare there was not a free market. The "replacement" of Obamacare is to fix that. It will take more legislation to get government out of healthcare than simply repealing Obamacare.

We need to repeal Obamacare NOW. No screwing around overthinking it. We can over talk ourselves into the same silly assed excuses we have made for the last five years attempting to find the perfect solution and gotten nothing.

Repeal it NOW and fix anything else as needed, but mainly fix our govt OUT of the healthcare business. Do this NOW, while the momentum is high and we have as many days as possible to finetune before the next elections.

Healthcare was arguably fine before Obamacare. There was certainly room for improvement with govt deregulation/competition, but it wasn't going to collapse upon itself as Obamacare will soon.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Anybody see the guy wearing the Butler shirt at the Town Hall with Paul Ryan?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Seriously? Why can't the private sector do it now? Like onerous .gov rules and regulations weren't there before ObamaCare?

Repeal and Reform, NOT Repeal and Replace.

Oh, I see what you're saying. It's a fair point.

 

[PaulF]

We need to repeal Obamacare NOW. No screwing around overthinking it. We can over talk ourselves into the same silly assed excuses we have made for the last five years attempting to find the perfect solution and gotten nothing.

Repeal it NOW and fix anything else as needed, but mainly fix our govt OUT of the healthcare business. Do this NOW, while the momentum is high and we have as many days as possible to finetune before the next elections.

Healthcare was arguably fine before Obamacare. There was certainly room for improvement with govt deregulation/competition, but it wasn't going to collapse upon itself as Obamacare will soon.

That's total BS...and you know it.

Millions of Americans were "locked out" of the insurance marketplace due to gerrymandered, sweetheart deals struck by the insurance industry with a compliant and greedy government in order to increase their profits at the expense of their customers.

Without access to heath insurance in this market good people have to choose whether to "buy" healthcare they cannot afford (and later renege on the bills), or deal with the consequences of illness alone.

Repealing Obamacare does not take us back to "before"...and "before" was not that great anyway, rife with corruption and cronyism already...repealing Obamacare just pulls a bunch of money back out of the system...how on Earth do you expect your costs to go down then?

The United states does not have a free market, ESPECIALLY in the healthcare sector. We have heavily regulated markets, and that isn't going to change when over half the country disagrees with your "**** 'em, let god sort it out" approach to government.

If republicans don't have a viable plan to replace coverage for the millions pushed out of the marketplace, whatever their "plan" is will come back to bite them.

 

[Kutnupe14]

If republicans don't have a viable plan to replace coverage for the millions pushed out of the marketplace, whatever their "plan" is will come back to bite them.

I've already said this, too. The Republicans had better tread really carefully with this.

 

[jamil]

Profit motivation does not necessarily drive research into diseases pari passu. Diseases, and citizens in these groups, are neglected. Perhaps that is OK with some, but an industry that can spend over $3 billion on erectile dysfunction might not have the ideal priority for society at large, free market notwithstanding.

And though you might believe that all pharmaceutical companies would act in the best interests of their customers, a recent example (Theranos) clearly shows priorities not in the public interest. Then there was Thalidomide, DES and many other cases where humans make errors that egregiously affect their customers and their offspring.

You're talking about a different part of it. I'll not get into the societal argument except to say my priority is for individuals and the hopes of a system in which they must make their own decisions, which they pay for. If we had such a system, they healthcare industrial complex would probably be reduced by an order of magnitude, because right now the emphasis seems to be getting the most people paid. Why did my health care provider have to employ so many people just to make an appointment to get a colonoscopy? That experience really opened my eyes to how out of control the healthcare industry is.

Probably we need to rethink some things. I remember sitting around the office a few years ago shooting the breeze with coworkers, all 10 to 20 years younger than me, about all the meds they're on. They were astonished that I wasn't on any meds. They acted like something was wrong with ME!

Maybe that's a different problem, but for them, if the decision involved were more than just which pharmacy to pick up the prescription, they might think harder about whether they really need those meds. Now, I'm not saying many people don't need the meds. But everyone of those people were taking those meds for lifestyle issues. The general public thinks pills can allow them an easy lifestyle without consequences. And their insurance covers the pills. So that's the choice this kind of market produces. We're fat partly because "society" pays the medical/pharmacy bill instead of individuals.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Florida, Texas, North Carolina, Georgia, Pennsylvania... Top 5 users of Obamacare. Trump won all.

 

[jamil]

We need to repeal Obamacare NOW. No screwing around overthinking it. We can over talk ourselves into the same silly assed excuses we have made for the last five years attempting to find the perfect solution and gotten nothing.

Repeal it NOW and fix anything else as needed, but mainly fix our govt OUT of the healthcare business. Do this NOW, while the momentum is high and we have as many days as possible to finetune before the next elections.

Healthcare was arguably fine before Obamacare. There was certainly room for improvement with govt deregulation/competition, but it wasn't going to collapse upon itself as Obamacare will soon.

Well, first, what paulf said. Why do you think healthcare was fine before Obamacare. Granted, it wasn't as bad. But it in no way reflected a free market. The insurance premiums were rising at an alarming rate before Obamacare. Of course with Obamacare, they're obscene.

Their are many issues with healthcare then and now that lead to the problem, but Doc hit on the biggest. If people had to pay for their own healthcare, the cost would drop dramatically. My parents weren't of high means but they paid for my birth out of pocket. They could pay for it out of pocket because the costs at that time didn't reflect an industry where society pays for stuff and individuals may just consume to their heart's content. The problem has been growing since then, and the trajectory has only been switched into high gear with Obamacare.

The thing that should fix it is restoring a free market, and health insurance reforms. Individuals should have complete say over their healthcare and they should have complete responsibility for it. Kinda means some buttercups might have to change some things and put their own money where their mouths are. But making society pay for healthcare doesn't make for healthier individuals.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Well, first, what paulf said. Why do you think healthcare was fine before Obamacare. Granted, it wasn't as bad. But it in no way reflected a free market. The insurance premiums were rising at an alarming rate before Obamacare. Of course with Obamacare, they're obscene.

Their are many issues with healthcare then and now that lead to the problem, but Doc hit on the biggest. If people had to pay for their own healthcare, the cost would drop dramatically. My parents weren't of high means but they paid for my birth out of pocket. They could pay for it out of pocket because the costs at that time didn't reflect an industry where society pays for stuff and individuals may just consume to their heart's content. The problem has been growing since then, and the trajectory has only been switched into high gear with Obamacare.

The thing that should fix it is restoring a free market, and health insurance reforms. Individuals should have complete say over their healthcare and they should have complete responsibility for it. Kinda means some buttercups might have to change some things and put their own money where their mouths are. But making society pay for healthcare doesn't make for healthier individuals.

Uhhh, be careful not to imply that the Obamacare made these rates worse than they would have been if the program didn't exist.

 

[actaeon277]

Well, first, what paulf said. Why do you think healthcare was fine before Obamacare. Granted, it wasn't as bad. But it in no way reflected a free market. The insurance premiums were rising at an alarming rate before Obamacare. Of course with Obamacare, they're obscene.

Their are many issues with healthcare then and now that lead to the problem, but Doc hit on the biggest. If people had to pay for their own healthcare, the cost would drop dramatically. My parents weren't of high means but they paid for my birth out of pocket. They could pay for it out of pocket because the costs at that time didn't reflect an industry where society pays for stuff and individuals may just consume to their heart's content. The problem has been growing since then, and the trajectory has only been switched into high gear with Obamacare.

The thing that should fix it is restoring a free market, and health insurance reforms. Individuals should have complete say over their healthcare and they should have complete responsibility for it. Kinda means some buttercups might have to change some things and put their own money where their mouths are. But making society pay for healthcare doesn't make for healthier individuals.

"In my opinion", ONE of the problems is insurance being used for EVERYTHING.
That "oversupply" of money causes problems.
That, and people expect to pay nothing out of pocket.
They'll buy 3 cars, 5 TVs, half a dozen cell phones without a blink. But healthcare... no.
And I'm related to some of those people, I see it all the time. One of the most important things in life (health) and they EXPECT it to be free.

 

[jamil]

Florida, Texas, North Carolina, Georgia, Pennsylvania... Top 5 users of Obamacare. Trump won all.

And they all cheered at the rallies when he said "repeal and replace Obamacare". I think that now it's going to be difficult for people to accept the concept of society not paying even more of their healthcare bills. People like the preexisting condition provision. They just don't see that it's fueling the healthcare costs. Obamacare, for healthy middle earners, essentially became a huge tax increase. It's not rich people who are paying for other people's lifestyle choices. It's the middle class.

 

[Kutnupe14]

And they all cheered at the rallies when he said "repeal and replace Obamacare". I think that now it's going to be difficult for people to accept the concept of society not paying even more of their healthcare bills. People like the preexisting condition provision. They just don't see that it's fueling the healthcare costs. Obamacare, for healthy middle earners, essentially became a huge tax increase. It's not rich people who are paying for other people's lifestyle choices. It's the middle class.

I this whole ACA thing, is yet another reason why I don't trust the GOP. ACA should be gone. Not repeal and replace, but repeal and forget. If they replace Obamacare, how is the replacement NOT "new Obamacare?" The Democrats have been been trying to get some form of govt healthcare for years, and Obama finally did it. If it's not going away, what has the GOP accomplished?

 

[actaeon277]

I this whole ACA thing, is yet another reason why I don't trust the GOP. ACA should be gone. Not repeal and replace, but repeal and forget. If they replace Obamacare, how is the replacement NOT "new Obamacare?" The Democrats have been been trying to get some form of govt healthcare for years, and Obama finally did it. If it's not going away, what has the GOP accomplished?

I have a problem with what I call "federal government overreach". So, I think Obama care, or a replacement would be "overreach", regardless of the party.
Though, if they made an amendment specifically to regulate healthcare I'd be more amendable. At least then, in my mind, the Constitution would authorize them.
Then my argument might be, how they do it.

 

[rhino]

When I hear the democrat weasels in the House & Senate demanding to see the replacement plan before any action is taken, I am reminded of the "we have to pass this thing to see what's in it" mentality that was virtually universal among those who voted yes on the Obamacare bill. None of those people read that bill before they voted yes on it.

 

[Alpo]

Well, first, what paulf said. Why do you think healthcare was fine before Obamacare. Granted, it wasn't as bad. But it in no way reflected a free market. The insurance premiums were rising at an alarming rate before Obamacare. Of course with Obamacare, they're obscene.

Their are many issues with healthcare then and now that lead to the problem, but Doc hit on the biggest. If people had to pay for their own healthcare, the cost would drop dramatically. My parents weren't of high means but they paid for my birth out of pocket. They could pay for it out of pocket because the costs at that time didn't reflect an industry where society pays for stuff and individuals may just consume to their heart's content. The problem has been growing since then, and the trajectory has only been switched into high gear with Obamacare.

The thing that should fix it is restoring a free market, and health insurance reforms. Individuals should have complete say over their healthcare and they should have complete responsibility for it. Kinda means some buttercups might have to change some things and put their own money where their mouths are. But making society pay for healthcare doesn't make for healthier individuals.

I'm not a doctor, but I've had a few opportunities to visit doctors. There are assistants floating around all of the time and we seem to spend a lot more time with them than the actual doctor or PA. But, doctors generally don't employ non-essential people. Perhaps they are inefficient. But maybe there are a lot of things that go on that you don't see as a patient. Insurance/medicare submissions are a real burden. Patient followup by phone. Perhaps your procedure was an initial procedure, requiring more initial information. Who knows?

 

[actaeon277]

When I hear the democrat weasels in the House & Senate demanding to see the replacement plan before any action is taken, I am reminded of the "we have to pass this thing to see what's in it" mentality that was virtually universal among those who voted yes on the Obamacare bill. None of those people read that bill before they voted yes on it.

I dare a Republican to say that exact same thing.

 

[rhino]

I dare a Republican to say that exact same thing.

It would be funny if they all stood and shouted it in unison.

But not so funny if they actually followed-through on it. Stupid is stupid in either direction.

 

[actaeon277]

It would be funny if they all stood and shouted it in unison.

But not so funny if they actually followed-through on it. Stupid is stupid in either direction.

No. I wouldn't like either party to say or follow through.
But I'd be interested in seeing more hypocrites.