Obamacare: Say goodnight, Gracie...

[Woobie]

Everything in those philosophical dissertations seems to indicate that Obamacare will become even further entrenched. There is nothing in there which says "the people" will realize its error and remove it or replace it with anything different.

If what you're getting at with the examples of foreign governments, different stages of democratic decay, etc., is that Obamacare will not fail until "America in general" fails...then I believe you are conceding my assertion that Obamacare is here for the duration.

No, I am saying what I have always said. Either people will realize how damaging it is and get rid of it, or it will collapse. That will likely be part of a larger national collapse.

 

[BugI02]

Bug/Woob,

Everything in those philosophical dissertations indicates that Obamacare will become even further entrenched. There is nothing there which says "the people" will realize its error and remove it or replace it with anything different.

If what you're getting at with these examples of foreign governments, different stages of democratic decay, etc., is that Obamacare will not fail until "America in general" fails...then I believe you are conceding my assertion that Obamacare is here for the duration.

Not quite. I'm saying we can show people the final destination on this train line, and if we do so believably enough we might be able to pull back from the brink. The total collapse of the American idea is not required. A good old fashioned all out war would be the death of Obamacare and a lot of other unnecessary crap too; let's hope that's not what it takes

 

[BugI02]

As you might guess; the more people I see who think something is free just because they don't have to pay for it, the less optimistic I become


ETA: I was never much accused of being an optimist to start with

 

[Alpo]

Well, I suppose if you have one eye on the 19th Century and the other (if it's not patched) even earlier, you are spot on in your assessment.

I have no idea what the second half of the 21st Century will look like, and since I'll be 100 in 2049, I don't expect I'll be overly concerned. Having said that, I'm certain that society will rely more heavily on socialized services. The trend in western societies is going that way and will likely continue. Republicans haven't been able to hit their ass with both hands and will die out in a generation or two.

I'm not sympathetic to all of the rugged individualists who have forgotten the way things have gone for the common man in past centuries. The only real solution in the long run is a smaller population as resources become more scarce. But, mention that to a conservative and you bring up reproduction and limited economic growth.

All in all, the government is a mess and being run by those even less competent than the Obama administration. I expect we'll see nothing but continuing failures out of this group of dunderheads.

 

[gregr]

Well, I suppose if you have one eye on the 19th Century and the other (if it's not patched) even earlier, you are spot on in your assessment.

I have no idea what the second half of the 21st Century will look like, and since I'll be 100 in 2049, I don't expect I'll be overly concerned. Having said that, I'm certain that society will rely more heavily on socialized services. The trend in western societies is going that way and will likely continue. Republicans haven't been able to hit their ass with both hands and will die out in a generation or two.

I'm not sympathetic to all of the rugged individualists who have forgotten the way things have gone for the common man in past centuries. The only real solution in the long run is a smaller population as resources become more scarce. But, mention that to a conservative and you bring up reproduction and limited economic growth.

All in all, the government is a mess and being run by those even less competent than the Obama administration. I expect we'll see nothing but continuing failures out of this group of dunderheads.

Yesssir, government is a mess...and it`s because we`ve lost too many of the "rugged individualists", as you put it, and, we`ve become too apathetic about government. I swear allegiance to God-Almighty, and then to the Constitution, not any party, uniform, badge, or office; and in that order, God first. If there were to be significant revival in America, you`d see this culture turn around and rebound! Instead, we`re only a short time away from the Rapture, and anyone paying attention is watching biblical prophesy fulfilled.

 

[T.Lex]

Dude, that first line is straight out of Ryan's mouth. Sounds like the marketing is actually working on some folks.

Look dude, if you want to play that game, plenty of INGO's posts - including yours - sound like regurgitations of Trumpisms without any meaningful thought.

Trump marketed himself well, and the anti-establishment voters bought it. The Freedom Caucus is small because most of the Party won't bite the hand that feeds their campaign coffers. But it's growing, and I'm patient. I'm not in a hurry to help the Republicans screw America.

No, but supporting the FC in this is slowly helping the Democrats continue screwing America on this.

The establishment Republicans voted for Obamacare.

Wait what?

Name the Republicans that voted for Obamacare. Or, like Trump, does that not mean what the words actually mean?

They gave us the Patriot Act. They gave us NSA surveillance. They gave us lots of things. So yeah, I don't like them. Dont mistake the little bones they throw you as a sign they like you. You're still a dog to them.

I'll only quarrel slightly about that - I and you are voters to them. That's it.

But supporting bad policy is the same mistake whether its a Dem or Republican.

But you go ahead and knock yourself out. Freedom is cheap to those who don't pay for it.

WTF dude.

Obamacare already robbed us of a measure of freedom. You want it all back now like a petulant kid. Clearly, that's not going to work. This was an opportunity to claw some part of it back and you're supporting striking it down. Your call.

But now you and FC own Obamacare as much as Obama/Pelosi/Schumer.

Frankly, I don't really blame Trump for this - other than overestimating his own abilities. He's still in his first 100 days of figuring this out. He got his nose bloodied on this. He needs to start bloodying the noses of those opposed to him for him get things done.

He did it to GOPe during the campaign, but now backs off when the FC is the one in his way.

 

[actaeon277]

Well, I suppose if you have one eye on the 19th Century and the other (if it's not patched) even earlier, you are spot on in your assessment.

I have no idea what the second half of the 21st Century will look like, and since I'll be 100 in 2049, I don't expect I'll be overly concerned. Having said that, I'm certain that society will rely more heavily on socialized services. The trend in western societies is going that way and will likely continue. Republicans haven't been able to hit their ass with both hands and will die out in a generation or two.

I'm not sympathetic to all of the rugged individualists who have forgotten the way things have gone for the common man in past centuries. The only real solution in the long run is a smaller population as resources become more scarce. But, mention that to a conservative and you bring up reproduction and limited economic growth.

All in all, the government is a mess and being run by those even less competent than the Obama administration. I expect we'll see nothing but continuing failures out of this group of dunderheads.

I'm not sympathetic to all of the rugged individualists who have forgotten the way things have gone for the common man in past centuries.

You're only looking at part of an equation. You need a control. In this case, you have the entire rest of the world at that time to look at.
EVERYTHING SUCKED more back then.
More has been done for the bottom part of society by that "rugged individualism" than by the "more socialist".

 

[BugI02]

View attachment 54275

 

[Alpo]

I'm not sympathetic to all of the rugged individualists who have forgotten the way things have gone for the common man in past centuries.

You're only looking at part of an equation. You need a control. In this case, you have the entire rest of the world at that time to look at.
EVERYTHING SUCKED more back then.
More has been done for the bottom part of society by that "rugged individualism" than by the "more socialist".

I do believe that a single person or small group of rugged individualists who understand that society is about more than individual desires of crabby despots can lead humanity in a better direction. St. Paul, Ghandi, Chuchill and a host of American leaders fit that archetype. Certainly there have been many that I left out for the sake of brevity. It is unfortunate for us that we haven't had a great American president since WWII.

 

[gregr]

I do believe that a single person or small group of rugged individualists who understand that society is about more than individual desires of crabby despots can lead humanity in a better direction. St. Paul, Ghandi, Chuchill and a host of American leaders fit that archetype. Certainly there have been many that I left out for the sake of brevity. It is unfortunate for us that we haven't had a great American president since WWII.

Not a savior by any means, however, Reagan was a very, very good leader...

 

[BugI02]

I do believe that a single person or small group of rugged individualists who understand that society is about more than individual desires of crabby despots can lead humanity in a better direction. St. Paul, Ghandi, Chuchill and a host of American leaders fit that archetype. Certainly there have been many that I left out for the sake of brevity. It is unfortunate for us that we haven't had a great American president since WWII.

Be careful what you wish for. The same conditions that can produce a savior can produce an anti-Christ, and it is fortold that it will be difficult to tell the difference early in the process

 

[Alpo]

I don't listen to guys who wear T-shirts with bad prose silk-screened on them.

 

[bwframe]

It has to be terribly depressing to be a liberal. Don't know how they get out of bed in the morning...

 

[1DOWN4UP]

It has to be terribly depressing to be a liberal. Don't know how they get out of bed in the morning...

most probably get out of bed in the afternoon.

 

[Woobie]

Well, I suppose if you have one eye on the 19th Century and the other (if it's not patched) even earlier, you are spot on in your assessment.

I have no idea what the second half of the 21st Century will look like, and since I'll be 100 in 2049, I don't expect I'll be overly concerned. Having said that, I'm certain that society will rely more heavily on socialized services. The trend in western societies is going that way and will likely continue. Republicans haven't been able to hit their ass with both hands and will die out in a generation or two.

I'm not sympathetic to all of the rugged individualists who have forgotten the way things have gone for the common man in past centuries. The only real solution in the long run is a smaller population as resources become more scarce. But, mention that to a conservative and you bring up reproduction and limited economic growth.

All in all, the government is a mess and being run by those even less competent than the Obama administration. I expect we'll see nothing but continuing failures out of this group of dunderheads.

It isn't just the 19th and 20th centuries, it's all of recorded history.


People often bring up the population limit thing. But every limit they put in it gets exploded, and they look for a new one. Technology and specialization have proved you wrong time and again.

 

[Alpo]

It has to be terribly depressing to be a liberal. Don't know how they get out of bed in the morning...

LIBERAL......................................................................TRUMP SUPPORTER

 

[Alpo]

It isn't just the 19th and 20th centuries, it's all of recorded history.


People often bring up the population limit thing. But every limit they put in it gets exploded, and they look for a new one. Technology and specialization have proved you wrong time and again.

Yeah, I'm familiar with Malthus. I also recognize that we may be approaching a technological singularity. And that the slope of the population curve is going logarithmic.

That's the problem when attempting to interpolate the future based on the past. I've also seen the "cone of humanity" foto where all the people in the world don't make a very big dent in the Grand Canyon when stacked on top of each other. Unfortunately, the infrastructural imperative doesn't have quite the same effect.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Poe quits Freedom Caucus in aftermath of failed ObamaCare overhaul | Fox News

 

[Woobie]

Look dude, if you want to play that game, plenty of INGO's posts - including yours - sound like regurgitations of Trumpisms without any meaningful thought.




No, but supporting the FC in this is slowly helping the Democrats continue screwing America on this.


Wait what?

Name the Republicans that voted for Obamacare. Or, like Trump, does that not mean what the words actually mean?


I'll only quarrel slightly about that - I and you are voters to them. That's it.

But supporting bad policy is the same mistake whether its a Dem or Republican.


WTF dude.

Obamacare already robbed us of a measure of freedom. You want it all back now like a petulant kid. Clearly, that's not going to work. This was an opportunity to claw some part of it back and you're supporting striking it down. Your call.

But now you and FC own Obamacare as much as Obama/Pelosi/Schumer.

Frankly, I don't really blame Trump for this - other than overestimating his own abilities. He's still in his first 100 days of figuring this out. He got his nose bloodied on this. He needs to start bloodying the noses of those opposed to him for him get things done.

He did it to GOPe during the campaign, but now backs off when the FC is the one in his way.

How could I regurgitate Trump if I don't listen to him speak? And if you hadn't been keeping score, he at least publicly supported this, which I did not.

I'm not supporting any caucus, I am opposing this bill. It was feckless, and it was impotent in reversing the harms of the ACA. It was an opportunity for the GOP to effect meaningless change while saying they had fulfilled the obligation the people gave them at the voting booth last fall. It was all about the optics, and even that didn't work for them. I do not support bad policy, even when Ryan says it is good. Thinking outside the party line. It's refreshing, and you might try it.

I was mistaken in saying the establishment supported the ACA. They did however, have some opportunities to stall it until after the recess, and they went limp.

I don't think a simple repeal is actually that hard. But they won't do it. They can't bring themselves to make that a separate step. They would rather bog the process down with hopelessly doomed legislation. I would support a good bill that didn't give all the freedom back. But this wasn't close. Not even a little bit. If you want me to own Obamacare, then you must own it too for supporting a garbage piece of legislation doomed from the start. Trump didn't back up, he went along with the establishment on this. But he didn't get the votes, and has the same egg on his face as Ryan, albeit not nearly as much.

 

[BugI02]

I don't listen to guys who wear T-shirts with bad prose silk-screened on them.

Reading your posts, you could have fooled me