E5RANGER375
Shooter
they will become a U.S. citizen, yes, but they are not a natural born U.S. citizen unless they are born on U.S. soil.
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Obama Confirmed Ineligible for Office?
- Thread starter BloodEclipse
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- birth certificate
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they will become a U.S. citizen, yes, but they are not a natural born U.S. citizen unless they are born on U.S. soil.
BloodEclipse
Grandmaster
So you are saying that anyone should run for President without having to prove they are legally able to do so?Please step forward and negate it with facts. This is America. Innocent until proven guilty, remember?
Show me the Kenyan birth certificate. Show me the witnesses with Polaroids of his birth in a mud hut in Africa. Show me a Federal Court willing to give any credibility to birther claims.
Until then, slap that aluminum foil over the windows and just keep whacking that old tired dead horse.
Why have qualifications for the job?
Article II, Section I, Clause V of the United States Constitution reads: "No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."
The burden of proof is on those who wish to attain that office and not on the citizens.
Just because someone skirts the requirements doesn't mean that now "We the People" have to prove anything.
You have a mixed up view of how things are supposed to work my friend.
They seem to not only have been unconcerned with privacy, but unconcerned with veracity as well.
IIRC, his mother's name was Stanley Ann Dunham, and she and Barack H. Obama, Sr. were not ever married.
Yes, I know about the propriety of the early 1960s, prior to the sexual revolution, but facts are facts. Additionally, that there is a listing in the paper only means some official paper was filed, not that the details were verified. He was born. This is not in question.
I should note also that I have a "birth certificate" from the hospital where my mother had me, however, this is absolutely worthless for any official purpose. It, like Hawaii's "short form" certification of live birth, is more like TV ad referencing issuing a "certificate of authenticity" on a reproduction of a stage prop from a sci-fi movie: Just because it looks just like what the actor carried on the set every day doesn't mean your reproduction lightsaber prop will work for any useful purpose. Hmm. Sounds a lot like Obama: Looks realistic enough to satisfy the masses, but it doesn't work worth a da*n.
Blessings,
Bill
BloodEclipse
Grandmaster
E5RANGER375
Shooter
ok, lets make this simple. if you and your wife are BOTH American Citizens, and your on vacation in Germany, and your wife goes into labor and at a GERMAN hospital on GERMAN soil she gives birth to your child, then that child is not instantly a U.S. Citizen before you even cut the cord. the requirements to be met are all there, because you are both U.S. citizens, but technically your child could get dual citizenship, one from Gremany and one from the U.S. To OFFICIALY satisfy the legal requirements you will have to file paperwork on behalf of your child and register him or her as a U.S. citizen. but he still will NEVER be considered a NATURAL BORN citizen because he was not born on U.S. soil or in a U.S. territory, etc. so therefor your will have a beautiful healthy hopefuly sucessfull child who will NEVER be eligible to become president of the United States of America.
OMG, stop the bickering already
Here, I found the information for you guys. Google is your friend.
Acquisition of U.S. Citizenship By a Child Born Abroad
Birth Abroad to Two U.S. Citizen Parents in Wedlock: A child born abroad to two U.S. citizen parents acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under section 301(c) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) provided that one of the parents had a residence in the U.S. prior to the child’s birth.
Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock: A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) INA provided the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen are required for physical presence in the U.S. to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.
Birth Abroad Out-of-Wedlock to a U.S. Citizen Father: A child born abroad out-of-wedlock to a U.S. citizen father may acquire U.S. citizenship under Section 301(g) INA, as made applicable by Section 309(a) INA provided:
1) a blood relationship between the applicant and the father is established by clear and convincing evidence;
2) the father had the nationality of the United States at the time of the applicant's birth;
3) the father (unless deceased) has agreed in writing to provide financial support for the person until the applicant reaches the age of 18 years, and
4) while the person is under the age of 18 years --
A) applicant is legitimated under the law of their residence or domicile,
B) father acknowledges paternity of the person in writing under oath, or
C) the paternity of the applicant is established by adjudication court.
Birth Abroad Out-of-Wedlock to a U.S. Citizen Mother: A child born abroad out-of-wedlock to a U.S. citizen mother may acquire U.S. citizenship under Section 301(g) INA, as made applicable by Section 309(c) INA if the mother was a U.S. citizen at the time of the child's birth, and if the mother had previously been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year.
Here, I found the information for you guys. Google is your friend.
Acquisition of U.S. Citizenship By a Child Born Abroad
Birth Abroad to Two U.S. Citizen Parents in Wedlock: A child born abroad to two U.S. citizen parents acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under section 301(c) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) provided that one of the parents had a residence in the U.S. prior to the child’s birth.
Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock: A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) INA provided the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen are required for physical presence in the U.S. to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.
Birth Abroad Out-of-Wedlock to a U.S. Citizen Father: A child born abroad out-of-wedlock to a U.S. citizen father may acquire U.S. citizenship under Section 301(g) INA, as made applicable by Section 309(a) INA provided:
1) a blood relationship between the applicant and the father is established by clear and convincing evidence;
2) the father had the nationality of the United States at the time of the applicant's birth;
3) the father (unless deceased) has agreed in writing to provide financial support for the person until the applicant reaches the age of 18 years, and
4) while the person is under the age of 18 years --
A) applicant is legitimated under the law of their residence or domicile,
B) father acknowledges paternity of the person in writing under oath, or
C) the paternity of the applicant is established by adjudication court.
Birth Abroad Out-of-Wedlock to a U.S. Citizen Mother: A child born abroad out-of-wedlock to a U.S. citizen mother may acquire U.S. citizenship under Section 301(g) INA, as made applicable by Section 309(c) INA if the mother was a U.S. citizen at the time of the child's birth, and if the mother had previously been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year.
BloodEclipse
Grandmaster
Re read the OP and understand the difference between Natural Born and Native Born.
BloodEclipse
Grandmaster
They can aquire citizenship but that does NOT make them "Natural Born"
The only non Natural Born Citizens who qualified were the founding fathers because of this verbage.
Okay, how about this?
It is estimated that between 4 and 10 million U.S. citizens live abroad. And, some of these Americans have children in their current home country. Does being born in a foreign country mean these children can never fully enjoy Fourth of July fireworks, the right to vote, or the chance to become President?
Like many things, it depends on the circumstances. Typically, a child born in a foreign country with one U.S. citizen parent is entitled to American citizenship. Of course, Uncle Sam has set up more hoops in some situations than in others. Your local embassy or consulate is the best resource for answers about this bureaucratic circus.
And for those of you who think you aren't affected by the information that follows, consider that you just may find be enjoying a nice overseas vacation when your new diaper-wearing traveling companion decides to join you.
First, let's start off with a quick lesson on U.S. citizenship. America follows the English common law rule of "right of soil." In short, citizenship is determined by one's place of birth. As such, those born in the U.S. or its territories (like Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands and Guam), are American citizens regardless of their parents' citizenship status.
What you might not know is the borders for citizenship. Those born within U.S. ports and harbors or within 12 nautical miles of U.S. borders are also American citizens. Even babies born on planes flying over the U.S. or its territories acquire U.S. citizenship. The ship or plane's country of origin makes no difference regarding citizenship.
However, U.S. installations in foreign countries are not considered part of the United States. So, delivering a baby at a U.S. naval base or embassy in a foreign country does not entitle the baby to U.S. citizenship.
Although the "citizenship by birth" rules have been complex, the February 2001 Child Citizenship Act (CCA) simplified the process. Now, a child who is under the age of 18, was born outside the U.S., and has at least one U.S. citizen parent automatically acquires U.S. citizenship upon entry into the country as an immigrant. No further paperwork is necessary. The parent may request a Certificate of Citizenship and U.S. Passport for the child if proof of the baby's American-ness is desired.
But this process only applies to children permanently residing in the U.S. If the child is under 18, was born outside the United States, but lives abroad in the physical and legal custody of a U.S. citizen parent or U.S. citizen grandparent, the parent or grandparent must apply for naturalization of the child. In addition, more criteria must be met.
The U.S. citizen parent or grandparent must have been physically present in the U.S. for five years before the child's birth, at least two of which were after age fourteen. Further, the child must be temporarily present in the U.S. for the naturalization process and to recite the oath of allegiance. Of course, if the child is too young to understand the oath, this requirement may be waived.
At this naturalization ceremony, the foreign-born, foreign-resident babies gain not only a certificate of citizenship but also membership into an exclusive club. The Constitution rules that only "natural born" citizens can hold our highest office, so it seems these new Americans won't grow up to be President either. The regulations suggest parents who contemplate baby's future run for the White House may want to consider permanent residence in the United States after the birth of little George or Hilary.
As with other areas of immigration and naturalization in this post-9/11 world, the guidelines change often. As such, these rules only apply to those children born on or after the effective date of the CCA. The law in place at the time of the child's birth governs immigration, so research carefully.
If you are expecting a child abroad and want to be sure of your baby's citizenship, check with your local embassy for the latest laws. In any case, you should register your child's birth with the embassy as soon as possible as the first step in establishing your child's claim to U.S. citizenship at birth.
Also, you'll be on your way to making sure you and your child can wave the Stars and Stripes next Fourth of July, vote together when the little one is 18, and perhaps, if you've thought ahead, tread the campaign trail.
It is estimated that between 4 and 10 million U.S. citizens live abroad. And, some of these Americans have children in their current home country. Does being born in a foreign country mean these children can never fully enjoy Fourth of July fireworks, the right to vote, or the chance to become President?
Like many things, it depends on the circumstances. Typically, a child born in a foreign country with one U.S. citizen parent is entitled to American citizenship. Of course, Uncle Sam has set up more hoops in some situations than in others. Your local embassy or consulate is the best resource for answers about this bureaucratic circus.
And for those of you who think you aren't affected by the information that follows, consider that you just may find be enjoying a nice overseas vacation when your new diaper-wearing traveling companion decides to join you.
First, let's start off with a quick lesson on U.S. citizenship. America follows the English common law rule of "right of soil." In short, citizenship is determined by one's place of birth. As such, those born in the U.S. or its territories (like Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands and Guam), are American citizens regardless of their parents' citizenship status.
What you might not know is the borders for citizenship. Those born within U.S. ports and harbors or within 12 nautical miles of U.S. borders are also American citizens. Even babies born on planes flying over the U.S. or its territories acquire U.S. citizenship. The ship or plane's country of origin makes no difference regarding citizenship.
However, U.S. installations in foreign countries are not considered part of the United States. So, delivering a baby at a U.S. naval base or embassy in a foreign country does not entitle the baby to U.S. citizenship.
Although the "citizenship by birth" rules have been complex, the February 2001 Child Citizenship Act (CCA) simplified the process. Now, a child who is under the age of 18, was born outside the U.S., and has at least one U.S. citizen parent automatically acquires U.S. citizenship upon entry into the country as an immigrant. No further paperwork is necessary. The parent may request a Certificate of Citizenship and U.S. Passport for the child if proof of the baby's American-ness is desired.
But this process only applies to children permanently residing in the U.S. If the child is under 18, was born outside the United States, but lives abroad in the physical and legal custody of a U.S. citizen parent or U.S. citizen grandparent, the parent or grandparent must apply for naturalization of the child. In addition, more criteria must be met.
The U.S. citizen parent or grandparent must have been physically present in the U.S. for five years before the child's birth, at least two of which were after age fourteen. Further, the child must be temporarily present in the U.S. for the naturalization process and to recite the oath of allegiance. Of course, if the child is too young to understand the oath, this requirement may be waived.
At this naturalization ceremony, the foreign-born, foreign-resident babies gain not only a certificate of citizenship but also membership into an exclusive club. The Constitution rules that only "natural born" citizens can hold our highest office, so it seems these new Americans won't grow up to be President either. The regulations suggest parents who contemplate baby's future run for the White House may want to consider permanent residence in the United States after the birth of little George or Hilary.
As with other areas of immigration and naturalization in this post-9/11 world, the guidelines change often. As such, these rules only apply to those children born on or after the effective date of the CCA. The law in place at the time of the child's birth governs immigration, so research carefully.
If you are expecting a child abroad and want to be sure of your baby's citizenship, check with your local embassy for the latest laws. In any case, you should register your child's birth with the embassy as soon as possible as the first step in establishing your child's claim to U.S. citizenship at birth.
Also, you'll be on your way to making sure you and your child can wave the Stars and Stripes next Fourth of July, vote together when the little one is 18, and perhaps, if you've thought ahead, tread the campaign trail.
The rules for citizenship have changed. When Barry Hussein was born, the rule was that the mother could pass citizenship to her infant by being born to a US citizen mother, but only if she had spent five years as a US citizen after her 14th birthday. She was 18 when he was born, so that condition was not met. There is also the matter of the Indonesian school he attended as a citizen of Indonesia, which did not allow dual citizenship at that time, thus, his US citizenship (if he ever had it to begin with) would have had to be renounced. I've seen no record of him petitioning to regain it.
As for this post, if a child born of both-US-citizen parents on US territory in a foreign country is not considered "natural born", then how was John McCain considered eligible when he was born in the Panama Canal Zone? (a point he made no bones about and without hesitation showed his birth documents.)
Funny thing: the first political race Obama won, he won by getting all other candidates declared ineligible. Anyone trying to do likewise to him, however, gets told:
Politics as usual.
Blessings,
Bill
BloodEclipse
Grandmaster
That does not meet the Natural Born requirement.
Just an additional tidbit of history.
So we had people who were native born but that alone didn't qualify them for citizenship.
Last edited:
Just for the sake of cutting to the chase, I’m going to go ahead and say that Obama’s “Certification of Live Birth” is enough proof to say he’s eligible to be president according to the Constitution…even though apparently, it’s difficult to even get a driver’s license with that.
Anyhow, when our Constitution was framed, the writers were British citizens and that’s the reason they included a clause in Article 2, Sec.1 that would give them eligibility to become “president”, but not giving that clause the reach of future generations because they didn’t want to be governed by a “Commander in Chief” who might have split loyalty (meaning they put a time limit on it). They recognized that they were subject to the British Crown.
OK, follow this... then if the Constitution still applies (
), that very Article makes his Hawaiian certificate a moot point. As I understand the British Nationality Act of 1948 (and PLEASE someone correct me if I’m wrong!), Obama would be a citizen of the United Kingdom because at the time he was “born in Honolulu”, Kenya was a British colony. As a Kenyan native, Obama’s father was a British subject so Barack's citizenship was governed by that British Nationality Act.
And the wording for that is:
“British Nationality Act of 1948 (Part II, Section 5): Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth.”
So then...??
Anyhow, when our Constitution was framed, the writers were British citizens and that’s the reason they included a clause in Article 2, Sec.1 that would give them eligibility to become “president”, but not giving that clause the reach of future generations because they didn’t want to be governed by a “Commander in Chief” who might have split loyalty (meaning they put a time limit on it). They recognized that they were subject to the British Crown.
OK, follow this... then if the Constitution still applies (
), that very Article makes his Hawaiian certificate a moot point. As I understand the British Nationality Act of 1948 (and PLEASE someone correct me if I’m wrong!), Obama would be a citizen of the United Kingdom because at the time he was “born in Honolulu”, Kenya was a British colony. As a Kenyan native, Obama’s father was a British subject so Barack's citizenship was governed by that British Nationality Act. And the wording for that is:
“British Nationality Act of 1948 (Part II, Section 5): Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth.”
So then...??
BloodEclipse
Grandmaster
Can't we just get back to deciding who was the second shooter on the grassy knoll in Dallas? Better chances that one really was a conpsiracy.
Thanks for adding so much insight to this thread. You articulate your position so well.
Thanks for adding so much insight to this thread. You articulate your position so well.
I think I have articulated my position well:
1. Barack Obama is President of the United States until the electorate decides otherwise or he completes his second term.
2. He has produced a birth certificate from the State of Hawaii that has as much information on it as the one that the State of Indiana gives me when I ask for it.
3. Federal Courts have refused to go forward with repeated filings by birthers who challenge his right to serve.
4. No one has produced irrefutable evidence that he was born elsewhere.
5. "His grandma said..." So what? I once said I was a poached egg. It doesn't make it so.
6. The State of Hawaii has stood behind POTUS as having been born there.
7. Birthers can whine about it until the cows come home. It has changed nothing; I doubt that it will.
8. The Federal Courts have, in essence, said there is no merit. Until the judiciary says otherwise, birthers are beating a dead horse.
9. Oh, did I say that birthers are beating a dead horse?
BloodEclipse
Grandmaster
I think I have articulated my position well:
1. Barack Obama is President of the United States until the electorate decides otherwise or he completes his second term.
We are working on it.
2. He has produced a birth certificate from the State of Hawaii that has as much information on it as the one that the State of Indiana gives me when I ask for it.
Certificate of Live Birth and I know you are aware of the differences.
3. Federal Courts have refused to go forward with repeated filings by birthers who challenge his right to serve.
Obama has spent more than $2 million hiding what?
4. No one has produced irrefutable evidence that he was born elsewhere.
That is not what is required and you know it.
5. "His grandma said..." So what? I once said I was a poached egg. It doesn't make it so.
6. The State of Hawaii has stood behind POTUS as having been born there.
7. Birthers can whine about it until the cows come home. It has changed nothing; I doubt that it will.
Would that make you a Denier?
8. The Federal Courts have, in essence, said there is no merit. Until the judiciary says otherwise, birthers are beating a dead horse.
Again how does a Citizen not have standing? Just because the courts are being obstructionist does not make them correct.
9. Oh, did I say that birthers are beating a dead horse?
How can wanting the truth be so easily dismissed by anyone, as beating a dead horse, is beyond me.
Are you afraid of the truth?
Or is it just a case of, "well the government is going to hide this so why try"?
I'm guessing you just love
Obama
and are willing to ignore any violations to the Constitution under his watch.
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