NRA instructor course

[NIFT]

And if you watch the Out Doors channel all this information is ....FREE.... If you join most any Conservation Club there will almost always be someone on the firing line that will be able to assist you with any problem you might have...cost....FREE...

Dunning-Kruger effect, for anyone who cares to look it up. They only won Nobel Laureates for the work.

 

[Jackson]

And if you watch the Out Doors channel all this information is ....FREE.... If you join most any Conservation Club there will almost always be someone on the firing line that will be able to assist you with any problem you might have...cost....FREE...

I think you would be surprised what you can learn in a good class.

 

[VERT]

Where shoukd I contact to take these courses and with what instructors?

I forgot to answer this earlier. Call Randy at IndyGunSafety. He can help you with the BIT and Basic Instructors Course.

 

[jdhaines]

Dunning-Kruger effect, for anyone who cares to look it up. They only won Nobel Laureates for the work.

Just because this effect is hard at work much of the time, it isn't adequate to assume everyone on the range who is willing to help doesn't have valuable knowledge. There are certainly dumb people who don't understand how little they know (D-K), but there are also very highly trained people willing to help for free.

I'll teach anyone anything I know completely for free simply because I like to do it. I'll spend time passing on my knowledge from past classes and training with the guys in my training group in any number of fields simply because its both the right thing to do and is enjoyable.

One thing that some of you instructors don't like to let out of the bag, which I'll do here, is that you never understand a topic quite so well as when you attempt to teach it. It's simply incredible how you can go from a mild understanding to a VERY high level understanding of a topic by simply trying to explain it to someone totally ignorant of it. You end up thinking through all of the little details, doing research, practicing harder, improvising other methods, building teaching aids, taking notes, etc just to further your ability to convey the information effectively. This is one of the reasons that I love to teach anyone who will listen the things I have picked up...beacause I can always guarantee that after a teaching session I'll have more clarity on that subject than when I started. It's, in essence, a very generous means to a very selfish end.

Any instructor worth his salt has realized this and uses it to his advantage whether he wants to admit it openly or not. This is one reason why I don't like the line "the best instructors are good students." I think the best instructors are the best instructors, because being a good instructor means seeking out information wherever it can be found.

 

[Jackson]

This is one reason why I don't like the line "the best instructors are good students." I think the best instructors are the best instructors, because being a good instructor means seeking out information wherever it can be found.

I think that is what people mean by the line. Being a good student means 'seeking out information wherever it can be found" and always looking to improve.

 

[VERT]

I'll do here, is that you never understand a topic quite so well as when you attempt to teach it.

I agree completely.

I think that is what people mean by the line. Being a good student means 'seeking out information wherever it can be found" and always looking to improve.

This would be my interpretation as well.

 

[David Rose]

Thanks for posting your course outline and bringing us back on track. I would like to point out that I never voiced any criticism of the NRA curriculum. I have taken the Basic Pistol course and believe it has a place in the world of training options available to prospective students. I think the needs, goals, and starting point of the student should be taken in to consideration before recommending any training. Criticizing any curriculum without the context that information provides is pointless. That is my main point.

I have no experience with the others and therefore cannot comment. I would be interested in taking them to see what they cover and so I can have an informed opinion; but I have trouble justifying the cost/benefit ratio when compared to other training on my to-do list.

What is the cost of your PPITH session?

You ask for context. I criticize the curriculum based on the fact that every time a new shooter comes and ask where to start they get bombarded with offers to sell them NRA Basic pistol from one end of the state to the other. That is the contex. If people are going to push a product I would like it to be a quality and relavent product. Since the NRA courses are not the property of the individual instructor but the NRA I would think they would not be considered sacred or like a dark family secret.

 

[Jackson]

You ask for context. I criticize the curriculum based on the fact that every time a new shooter comes and ask where to start they get bombarded with offers to sell them NRA Basic pistol from one end of the state to the other. That is the contex. If people are going to push a product I would like it to be a quality and relavent product. Since the NRA courses are not the property of the individual instructor but the NRA I would think they would not be considered sacred or like a dark family secret.

What I meant to convey is that without considering the needs of the student, the adequacy of the curriculum could not be assessed. This curriculum may be the right fit for some students. Are you saying there is no student for whom Basic Pistol is appropriate?

 

[David Rose]

What I meant to convey is that without considering the needs of the student, the adequacy of the curriculum could not be assessed. This curriculum may be the right fit for some students. Are you saying there is no student for whom Basic Pistol is appropriate?

I have given examples of prospective student types at least twice so far. I'm saying that basic pistol is not an appropriate first step/foundation for 95%+ of the students it's recommended to. I've met a few older retired gentlemen in basic pistol who really just wanted to talk gun with somebody. I think they were a perfect fit. For the new gun owner looking to become confident and competent to defend them self, not a chance.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

And if you watch the Out Doors channel all this information is ....FREE.... If you join most any Conservation Club there will almost always be someone on the firing line that will be able to assist you with any problem you might have...cost....FREE...

And the vast majority of those people are NOT experienced instructors and the information is junk. We fight this all the time. You really believe you should get your firearms training from TV?

It's not FREE... you have to PAY for the Outdoor Channel, and get no supervised hands on or coaching.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

I have given examples of prospective student types at least twice so far. I'm saying that basic pistol is not an appropriate first step/foundation for 95%+ of the students it's recommended to. I've met a few older retired gentlemen in basic pistol who really just wanted to talk gun with somebody. I think they were a perfect fit. For the new gun owner looking to become confident and competent to defend them self, not a chance.

Nobody here is suggesting Basic Pistol is a defensive pistol course. You are an instructor, right? You should know better. Basic Pistol is the foundation of knowledge to be built upon. The enabling objectives lead to the terminal objective, as they should.

 

[Pinchaser]

As long as you are willing to pay the fee, the NRA will certify anyone.

Don't equate being able to teach with getting some piece of paper from a supposed NRA instructor who quite possibly is less qualified than are you.

I have taught both hand and long gun safety and use for over 30 years. In the summer months, I make decent money doing so. I also put a lot of properly trained shooters on the street. No NRA piece of paper required.

 

[David Rose]

"Nobody here is suggesting Basic Pistol is a defensive pistol course."
1. Seems to be one of the first thing people suggest when someone new wants defensive training, so I can see how people might get confused.
2. you are promoting it as a necessary "foundation" for defensive skills.

In its current form it is neither a defensive course nor necessary to the formulation of defensive, competition, or other skills.

"You are an instructor, right? "
Yes.

"You should know better."
I do, I'm just trying to share the knowledge.

"Basic Pistol is the foundation of knowledge to be built upon."
Nope.

"The enabling objectives lead to the terminal objective, as they should."
To put it very gently NRA Basic Pistol is maybe an amusing detour, or, possibly the scenic route to the starting gate. I wish it were more, but I fear institutional inertia I against it.

 

[TommyD]

Good to know.

 

[Fredo]

As an NRA instructor I will say that I am both a supporter of the program and also recognize the weaknesses. Like NIFT has already mentioned it is really up to the dedication of the instructors. I have had the privilege to interact with several NRA instructors and for the most part I can say that most are very knowledgeable. The NRA curriculum is an excellent starting point for novice shooters to begin their training. I especially like that the course material is suitable to present to a wide range of people. We have had students from all walks of life and ranging in age from 18 - 70.

Basic Pistol is not a defensive handgun course. The goal is to teach firearms safety, discuss safe storage, shooting fundametals, and basic firearm manipulations. It is a course designed to introduce people to handguns and emphasizes target shooting. Please understand that people take this course expecting a defensive handgun course or to satisfy training requiments. So it is not uncommon that a class will take on that theme, but we should always stay within the prescribed lesson plans.

Basic Personal Protection is NRA's introductory curriculum for people wanting to keep a firearm for self defense. It is not uncommon for trainers to have different opinions about how guns should be deployed during a more serious situation. These debates are good and allow sites such as INGO to have a whole sub forum devoted to the discussion. Does the NRA lessons lack is some respects? Sure because an oganization can't please everyone. Do the NRA lessons provide solid information that will serve as a basis for the next level of training? Again Yes.

Well Said Vert!

 

[Fredo]

It is good to know there are many NON-NRA trainings going on out there. Question for all of you who train anyone in Indiana. How good is you Personal Liability Insurance. Anyone willing to share their coverage limits/premiums?
I hope this isn't considered a thread hi-jack attempt.....

 

[VERT]

I am not sure that reviving a year old thread is a "thread jack". I will admit you resurrected a good one.

I carry the NRA instructor plus coverage through Lockton risk. It gives $1 million in professional liability. Medical coverage is only $5000 per occurance. Even when I host a non-NRA course I don't stray too far from the basic curriculm. I just got my yearly bill in the mail. Total cost for the policy is $365. A person can also carry personal liability with a self defense rider. I did carry this but have recently switched to their new second call defense program.

 

[IamLegend]

I did get my bit, rso and basic pistol certification. The instructor was NOT from this thread or on ingo that I'm aware of. Felt like I did not get anything from the course except the certification. Really wanted to see what the class was supposed to look like. That said I will be looking to take as much training as I can in 2014 to increase my skills and knowledge. Also I will be looking to sit in on some NRA courses and eventually instruct some.
Vert - we played some phone tag awhile back but I'm still interested in sitting in if the offer still stands. I've still got your number so let me know and I'll call you. Got sidetracked with some other business but want to push towards some goals this year in this area.
Any other discussion/advise on this subject appreciated.