Joe Williams
Shooter
- Jun 26, 2008
- 10,431
- 38
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Be sure to read this post! Beware of scammers. https://www.indianagunowners.com/threads/classifieds-new-online-payment-guidelines-rules-paypal-venmo-zelle-etc.511734/
no holster carry
- Thread starter booey50
- Start date
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IndyBeerman
Was a real life Beerman.....
Hmmmmm...... First learn to read what is written grasshopper before your thought process kicks in, he refers to a Bad Guy, not a prim and proper LTCH'er.
Now let's eval this, op states that this is a BG that is carrying mexican style.
You really want to go all stupid on a BG and and tell him he's a idiot (because explaining the whole Plaxico thing would make him think exactly that), better yet do you think he'll give a crap about what you say or think before he turns you into his own personal pinata.
Personally I'll keep my spidey sense on full alert and get some distance between me and him.
I'm not sure it is that cut and dry, Beerman. The post could be more clear.
Let's break it down.
OK. The definition of "bad guy" is a little ambiguous here. "Bad guy" is someone committing a crime? "Bad guy" is the mean old Uncle who made fun of your Superman underoos at your cousin's sleepover. "Bad guy" is someone from the inner city with little exposure to gun handling safety?
Given that the definition of "bad guy" is still up for debate, reading "somewhere" that lack of proper gun safety and retention prevalent among the mentioned group - well, difficult without a definition of the specific group.
Hmmm... this get's a bit tougher.
Again, back to the definition of "bad guy." Unless the OP sees crimes in progress on a routine basis, I'm thinking he is only referring to folks that, due to their appearance, he assumes are ne'er-do-well malcontents. Is he seeing "the nine" or just an assumption that one exists??
Does "anyways" mean the following statement stands on its own??
We need to define "someone" now. A range partner, a friend, an acquaintance in a store, someone walking down the sidewalk, or the guy telling me to give him all my cash before he pops a cap in my "beast of burden?"
Language is like fireworks.
Sometimes there is a beautiful, orchestral display for all to see.
Sometimes that Great Grizzly Thunderbolt Chinese Rocket angles out of the tube at 30 degrees, careens onto the neighbor's new roof, skids down over the edge, drops into his hydrangea bushes and sets them on fire. All the while, your children point and laugh as you're trying to put out the flames.
Let's break it down.
OK. The definition of "bad guy" is a little ambiguous here. "Bad guy" is someone committing a crime? "Bad guy" is the mean old Uncle who made fun of your Superman underoos at your cousin's sleepover. "Bad guy" is someone from the inner city with little exposure to gun handling safety?
Given that the definition of "bad guy" is still up for debate, reading "somewhere" that lack of proper gun safety and retention prevalent among the mentioned group - well, difficult without a definition of the specific group.
Hmmm... this get's a bit tougher.
Again, back to the definition of "bad guy." Unless the OP sees crimes in progress on a routine basis, I'm thinking he is only referring to folks that, due to their appearance, he assumes are ne'er-do-well malcontents. Is he seeing "the nine" or just an assumption that one exists??
Does "anyways" mean the following statement stands on its own??
We need to define "someone" now. A range partner, a friend, an acquaintance in a store, someone walking down the sidewalk, or the guy telling me to give him all my cash before he pops a cap in my "beast of burden?"
Language is like fireworks.
Sometimes there is a beautiful, orchestral display for all to see.
Sometimes that Great Grizzly Thunderbolt Chinese Rocket angles out of the tube at 30 degrees, careens onto the neighbor's new roof, skids down over the edge, drops into his hydrangea bushes and sets them on fire. All the while, your children point and laugh as you're trying to put out the flames.
He said all bad guys carry without a holster. That's not the same as saying that all people who carry without a holster are bad guys. All you can assume is the guy without a holster MIGHT be a bad guy. He asked what we would do if we saw SOMEBODY carrying without a holster, and didn't specify that somebody was a bad guy.
If I said All Smokers are Stupid, that's not the same as saying All Stupid People Smoke.
All A are B does not lead to the conclusion All B are A.
Logical reasoning. Learn it.
Personally I also find carrying without a holster aka "Mexican carry" To be very stupid.
The only time I could see someone doing it, would be if like someone knocked on their door late at night, and upon seeing it was someone they knew, they stuck the gun in their waistband to answer the door without having a weapon drawn. But other then that I don't see it being very safe or practical. On top of that, I would be worried carrying a gun on a day to day basis without a holster, would get more sweat, or moisture on the gun's finish which could cause rust. Plus if you do carry without a holster you would also scratch your gun up more then with a holster. As some people I know have done it, and it has happened. Especially with their belt buckle rubbing against the slide or from the button on their jeans.
The only time I could see someone doing it, would be if like someone knocked on their door late at night, and upon seeing it was someone they knew, they stuck the gun in their waistband to answer the door without having a weapon drawn. But other then that I don't see it being very safe or practical. On top of that, I would be worried carrying a gun on a day to day basis without a holster, would get more sweat, or moisture on the gun's finish which could cause rust. Plus if you do carry without a holster you would also scratch your gun up more then with a holster. As some people I know have done it, and it has happened. Especially with their belt buckle rubbing against the slide or from the button on their jeans.
spartan933
Expert
Yep.
actually, i'll go out on a limb here. could it be said that a person who would carry a firearm on a daily basis WITHOUT carrying said handgun in a holster be stupid? yeah, i think so. now, does being stupid make you a bad guy? maybe. so, in this case, A could equal B and B=A.
logical reasoning, think about it.
Then again, I could make some (valid, in my mind) sweeping comments about everybody that works at xxxx is stupid. (I'll refrain from stating a employer so not to offend someone) so they must all be bad. Stupid people aren't automatically "bad."
Not all "smart" people are "good."
I've carried with out a holster, not in the front I tuck it in the back. Where did I pick up such a silly thing?.The Army...Where did the US Army get such a notion?.The British SAS..Why would the SAS not use holsters? Blending in is the basic answer....SAS operatives routinly did tours in Northern Irland. In order to blend in they would have to dress in civilain cloths this way they could gather HUMIT( Humam Intelignece) On IRA soilders. A man in civilian cloths was either a cop or a British soilder/agent. Either way a good way to be killed or have all your info dry up.
The SAS practiced with there sidearms with out holsters until it was second nature to them. A SAS operative could draw his sidarm and fire faster than the majority of people with holsters.
Don't be to sure that the guy you think is a BG is really a BG. He may have that gun tucked because he was traind to do so.
As for the gun falling out on the guy. He should of unloaded the weapon and then bent,jumped,walked,ran in place, turned, etc. To find out what will cause it to fall out then adjust and do it over again.
Yes there's more to just sticking the gun in your pants and going about your day.
But, that's for another thread.
God Bless
The SAS practiced with there sidearms with out holsters until it was second nature to them. A SAS operative could draw his sidarm and fire faster than the majority of people with holsters.
Don't be to sure that the guy you think is a BG is really a BG. He may have that gun tucked because he was traind to do so.
As for the gun falling out on the guy. He should of unloaded the weapon and then bent,jumped,walked,ran in place, turned, etc. To find out what will cause it to fall out then adjust and do it over again.
Yes there's more to just sticking the gun in your pants and going about your day.
But, that's for another thread.
God Bless
Kirk Freeman
Grandmaster
It is a well-known fact here at INGO that all things British are superior.
There is actually a safe way to carry a pistol without a holster. I carry a BUG (S&W 637) every single DUTY day without a holster. I have been doing so for a number of years. You would never see unless you were attempting to disarm me of my service weapon ect. and then it would be too late. A lightning fast effortless draw from any position. Sorry trade secret.
Truckerman79
Sharpshooter
booey50 said:
Talk about a flawed premise.
IndyGunSafety
Master
Hmmmmm... I love to carry my P3AT without a holster. It has a clip on it. Slides on my waistband or in a pocket. A person who thinks I am untrained and unprepared because I do not have a holster underestimates me, thus giving me an advantage. 
George Ward Nichols
Harper's New Monthly Magazine, February, 1867
Several months after the ending of the Civil War I visited the city of Springfield in Southwest Missouri. Springfield is not a burgh of extensive dimensions, yet it is the largest in that part of the State, and all roads lend to it -- which is one reason why it was the point of support, as well as the base of operations for all military movements during the war.
On a warm summer day I sat watching from the shadow of a broad awning the coming and goings of the strange, half-civilized people who, from all the country round, make this a place for barter and trade. Men and women dressed in queer costumes; men with coats and trousers made of skin, but so thickly covered with dirt and grease as to have defied the identity of the animal when walking in the flesh. Others wore homespun gear, which oftentimes appeared to have seen lengthy service. Many of those people were mounted on horse-hack or mule-back, while others urged forward the unwilling cattle attached to creaking, heavily-laden wagons, their drivers snapping their long whips with a report like that of a pistol-shot.
In front of the shops which lined both sides of the main business street, and about the public square, were groups of men lolling against posts, lying upon the wooden sidewalks, or sitting in chairs. These men were temporary or permanent denizens of the city, and were lazily occupied in doing nothing. The most marked characteristic of the inhabitants seemed to be an indisposition to move, and their highest ambition to let their hair and beards grow.
Here and there upon the street the appearance of the army blue betokened the presence of a returned Union soldier, and the jaunty, confident air with which they carried themselves was all the more striking in its contrast with the indolence which appeared to belong to the place. The only indication of action was the inevitable revolver which every body, excepting, perhaps, the women, wore about their persons. When people moved in this lazy city they did so slowly and without method. No one seemed in baste. A huge hog wallowed in luxurious ease in a nice bed of mud on the other side of the way, giving vent to gentle grunts of satisfaction. On the platform at my feet lay a large wolf-dog literally asleep with one eye open. He, too, seemed contented to let the world wag idly on.
The loose, lazy spirit of the occasion finally took possession of me, and I sat and gazed and smoked, and it is possible that I might have fallen into a Rip Van Winkle sleep to have been aroused ten years hence by the cry, "Passengers for the flying machine to New York, all aboard!” when I and the drowsing city were roused into life by the clatter and crash of the hoofs of a horse which dashed furiously across the square and down the street. The rider sat perfectly erect, yet following with a grace of motion, seen only in the horsemen of the plains, the rise and fall of the galloping steed. There was only a moment to observe this, for they halted suddenly, while the rider springing to the ground approached the party which the noise had gathered near me.
"This yere is Wild Bill, Colonel," said Captain Honesty, an army officer, addressing me.
Bill stood six feet and an inch in his bright yellow moccasins. A deer-skin shirt, or frock it might be called, hung jauntily over his shoulders, and revealed a chest whose breadth and depth were remarkable. These lungs had had growth in some twenty years of the free air of the Rocky Mountains. His small, round waist was girthed by a belt which held two of Colt’s Navy revolvers.
Good 'nuff. Bill don't need no stinking holsters. Some times I don't either.
Harper's New Monthly Magazine, February, 1867
Several months after the ending of the Civil War I visited the city of Springfield in Southwest Missouri. Springfield is not a burgh of extensive dimensions, yet it is the largest in that part of the State, and all roads lend to it -- which is one reason why it was the point of support, as well as the base of operations for all military movements during the war.
On a warm summer day I sat watching from the shadow of a broad awning the coming and goings of the strange, half-civilized people who, from all the country round, make this a place for barter and trade. Men and women dressed in queer costumes; men with coats and trousers made of skin, but so thickly covered with dirt and grease as to have defied the identity of the animal when walking in the flesh. Others wore homespun gear, which oftentimes appeared to have seen lengthy service. Many of those people were mounted on horse-hack or mule-back, while others urged forward the unwilling cattle attached to creaking, heavily-laden wagons, their drivers snapping their long whips with a report like that of a pistol-shot.
In front of the shops which lined both sides of the main business street, and about the public square, were groups of men lolling against posts, lying upon the wooden sidewalks, or sitting in chairs. These men were temporary or permanent denizens of the city, and were lazily occupied in doing nothing. The most marked characteristic of the inhabitants seemed to be an indisposition to move, and their highest ambition to let their hair and beards grow.
Here and there upon the street the appearance of the army blue betokened the presence of a returned Union soldier, and the jaunty, confident air with which they carried themselves was all the more striking in its contrast with the indolence which appeared to belong to the place. The only indication of action was the inevitable revolver which every body, excepting, perhaps, the women, wore about their persons. When people moved in this lazy city they did so slowly and without method. No one seemed in baste. A huge hog wallowed in luxurious ease in a nice bed of mud on the other side of the way, giving vent to gentle grunts of satisfaction. On the platform at my feet lay a large wolf-dog literally asleep with one eye open. He, too, seemed contented to let the world wag idly on.
The loose, lazy spirit of the occasion finally took possession of me, and I sat and gazed and smoked, and it is possible that I might have fallen into a Rip Van Winkle sleep to have been aroused ten years hence by the cry, "Passengers for the flying machine to New York, all aboard!” when I and the drowsing city were roused into life by the clatter and crash of the hoofs of a horse which dashed furiously across the square and down the street. The rider sat perfectly erect, yet following with a grace of motion, seen only in the horsemen of the plains, the rise and fall of the galloping steed. There was only a moment to observe this, for they halted suddenly, while the rider springing to the ground approached the party which the noise had gathered near me.
"This yere is Wild Bill, Colonel," said Captain Honesty, an army officer, addressing me.
Bill stood six feet and an inch in his bright yellow moccasins. A deer-skin shirt, or frock it might be called, hung jauntily over his shoulders, and revealed a chest whose breadth and depth were remarkable. These lungs had had growth in some twenty years of the free air of the Rocky Mountains. His small, round waist was girthed by a belt which held two of Colt’s Navy revolvers.
Good 'nuff. Bill don't need no stinking holsters. Some times I don't either.
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I think the root of the question is that if you see someone carrying without a holster, they are probable a criminal. I would not assume that. I would get away from the situation. I know a few gun owners that do not carry regularly, but when they do they just grab thier gun from the car console and drop it in a pocket. This does not mean I think this is a good idea. I am just saying a holster is not a dividing line between criminals and licensed carriers.
Kirk Freeman
Grandmaster
Wild Bill thought it a good idea to shoot at sounds too.
How Wild Bill carried his pistols when he was not posing for photos:
How Wild Bill carried his pistols when he was not posing for photos:
