NHS "Junior Doctors" set to strike Dec 1

[indiucky]

I'm interested where you came up with that. Here is the current Hippocratic oath. Just a few sources.

Hippocratic Oath definition - MedicineNet - Health and Medical Information Produced by DoctorsHippocratic Oath, Modern version - Bioethics - Guides at Johns Hopkins University

Oaths for Physicians ? Necessary Protection or Elaborate Hoax?

It's the Hippocratic Oath...After Roe V Wade they modernized it...I gave you the original translation from Greek...

It's just history...

 

[indiucky]

Just a few facts about the AMA, the Hippocratic oath, and whether or not doctors are required to take it. Only 8% of medical schools prohibit abortion in their Hippocratic oaths. So I'll credit you with 8%.

AMA Hippocratic Oath

I would have thought zero percent....That's beautiful to know...Thank You....

 

[Arthur Dent]

Research how the ACA was passed. Not really the process the framers had in mind in the constitution. It was passed through parliamentary smoke and mirrors.

As is most legislation these days.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Research how the ACA was passed. Not really the process the framers had in mind in the constitution. It was passed through parliamentary smoke and mirrors.

Funny how some people's understanding of the world works. For example, our neighbor here seems to think that since Obama got his hand smacked 4 or 5 times out of over 200, executive orders amount to nothing, or how a president fills in the gray spaces in legislation isn't important, or how he seems to suppose that something is justified by its status as a completed past action, like ObamaCare.

 

[Arthur Dent]

Funny how some people's understanding of the world works. For example, our neighbor here seems to think that since Obama got his hand smacked 4 or 5 times out of over 200, executive orders amount to nothing, or how a president fills in the gray spaces in legislation isn't important, or how he seems to suppose that something is justified by its status as a completed past action, like ObamaCare.

Let's do a little bit of fact checking here. As of November 20th Obama has issued 223 executive orders and is on track to pass fewer than GWB, Clinton, Carter and even the GOP Godfather Reagan. Twelve of those have been overturned by the US Supreme Court and his term isn't over.

Talk about someone being condescending, Dave. Look in the mirror.

 

[jamil]

As is most legislation these days.

Actually, no. Of course there is politics in play, but not necessarily parliamentary smoke and mirrors used to pass the ACA.

The House never initiated a bill with original language for ACA. Instead, a bill that passed unanimously as "Service Members Home Ownership Tax Act of 2009" was sent to the senate, which removed and replaced the entire language of that bill with the ACA language. The Democrat controlled Senate passed this version using the age old effective trick of calling a midnight vote on Christmas Eve when it's a dead news cycle and most of the opposition was gone for the holidays anyway. The completely, newly revised bill was sent back to the House (infamously hidden from the members as "you have to pass it to see what's in it."). That version passed the House with a few amendments and zero Republican support. The Senate accepted the House amendments, and off to the dickhead in chief to sign.

So, although some bills are passed into law by parliamentary smoke and mirrors, most don't. At least not with this level of deceit.

 

[jamil]

Let's do a little bit of fact checking here. As of November 20th Obama has issued 223 executive orders and is on track to pass fewer than GWB, Clinton, Carter and even the GOP Godfather Reagan. Twelve of those have been overturned by the US Supreme Court and his term isn't over.

Talk about someone being condescending, Dave. Look in the mirror.

The issue isn't the number of executive orders. That's just media smoke and mirrors to deflect the issue.

The issue is the extending the authority of executive orders beyond what has been accepted. Even people (the few intellectually honest ones) in the media have recognized this and have written about it.

And it doesn't matter if Bush or Reagan did it too. That isn't a logical argument. It's a sophomoric argument. Extending the power of the president by incrementally pushing the boundaries is not what the framers had in mind for balance of power between the branches. It doesn't matter which side is doing it.

 

[steveh_131]

I didn't know all that about the ACA. Geeze.

 

[jamil]

I didn't know all that about the ACA. Geeze.

I remember during the 2012 campaign season, the dickhead in chief had the gall to say his ACA passed with bipartisan support! That completely floored me how incredibly, audaciously and obviously dishonest he was. America soaked that **** up. Have to admit. The guy knows how to make taste like Koolaid.

 

[Arthur Dent]

The issue isn't the number of executive orders. That's just media smoke and mirrors to deflect the issue.

The issue is the extending the authority of executive orders beyond what has been accepted. Even people (the few intellectually honest ones) in the media have recognized this and have written about it.

And it doesn't matter if Bush or Reagan did it too. That isn't a logical argument. It's a sophomoric argument. Extending the power of the president by incrementally pushing the boundaries is not what the framers had in mind for balance of power between the branches. It doesn't matter which side is doing it.

And when those orders have extended beyond their authority they have been overturned.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Actually, no. Of course there is politics in play, but not necessarily parliamentary smoke and mirrors used to pass the ACA.

The House never initiated a bill with original language for ACA. Instead, a bill that passed unanimously as "Service Members Home Ownership Tax Act of 2009" was sent to the senate, which removed and replaced the entire language of that bill with the ACA language. The Democrat controlled Senate passed this version using the age old effective trick of calling a midnight vote on Christmas Eve when it's a dead news cycle and most of the opposition was gone for the holidays anyway. The completely, newly revised bill was sent back to the House (infamously hidden from the members as "you have to pass it to see what's in it."). That version passed the House with a few amendments and zero Republican support. The Senate accepted the House amendments, and off to the dickhead in chief to sign.

So, although some bills are passed into law by parliamentary smoke and mirrors, most don't. At least not with this level of deceit.

I didn't know all that about the ACA. Geeze.

I didn't recall the name of the bill that was stripped and replaced but yeah...this is pretty much how I remember it as well.

 

[Joe G]

Let's do a little bit of fact checking here. As of November 20th Obama has issued 223 executive orders and is on track to pass fewer than GWB, Clinton, Carter and even the GOP Godfather Reagan. Twelve of those have been overturned by the US Supreme Court and his term isn't over.

Talk about someone being condescending, Dave. Look in the mirror.

Don't forget other versions of the "Executive Order" that he's used more than anyone else....

Obama issues 'executive orders by another name'


So don't just add the EO's... include the PM's and he's a a lying dirtbag as always. (info below as of a Dec 2014)

 

[Arthur Dent]

Don't forget other versions of the "Executive Order" that he's used more than anyone else....

Obama issues 'executive orders by another name'


So don't just add the EO's... include the PM's and he's a a lying dirtbag as always. (info below as of a Dec 2014)

There's a bit of a difference between an executive order and a presidential memo. The big one being the memos are not required to be published and the orders are required to be published. With no real way to track the presidential memos the accuracy of the USA Today article can be called into question. I'm not defending Obama, make no mistake about that. What needs to be kept in mind is that Obama has certainly felt the need to publish more of his presidential memos than other presidents, which is entirely at the discretion of the president. So Obama could very well have issued twelve times the number of memos than have been published, or he may have published each and every one while Johnson may have issued several hundred memos and simply chosen not to publish them.

In a nutshell the number of presidential memos made by current and former presidents is a moot point since they are not required to be and are not always officially recorded and published.

 

[jamil]

There's a bit of a difference between an executive order and a presidential memo. The big one being the memos are not required to be published and the orders are required to be published. With no real way to track the presidential memos the accuracy of the USA Today article can be called into question. I'm not defending Obama, make no mistake about that. What needs to be kept in mind is that Obama has certainly felt the need to publish more of his presidential memos than other presidents, which is entirely at the discretion of the president. So Obama could very well have issued twelve times the number of memos than have been published, or he may have published each and every one while Johnson may have issued several hundred memos and simply chosen not to publish them.

In a nutshell the number of presidential memos made by current and former presidents is a moot point since they are not required to be and are not always officially recorded and published.

Prolly right. I doubt Obama published the one to the IRS.

 

[Joe G]

There's a bit of a difference between an executive order and a presidential memo. The big one being the memos are not required to be published and the orders are required to be published. With no real way to track the presidential memos the accuracy of the USA Today article can be called into question. I'm not defending Obama, make no mistake about that. What needs to be kept in mind is that Obama has certainly felt the need to publish more of his presidential memos than other presidents, which is entirely at the discretion of the president. So Obama could very well have issued twelve times the number of memos than have been published, or he may have published each and every one while Johnson may have issued several hundred memos and simply chosen not to publish them.

In a nutshell the number of presidential memos made by current and former presidents is a moot point since they are not required to be and are not always officially recorded and published.

But as was explained in the article, the effect of both are the same. Seems like he prefers them vs. the more traditional EO's BECAUSE they are more stealthy and he can BS his way around the questions such as "has Obama issued more EO's than previous Presidents?"

"Like executive orders, presidential memoranda don't require action by Congress. They have the same force of law as executive orders and often have consequences just as far-reaching. And some of the most significant actions of the Obama presidency have come not by executive order but by presidential memoranda."

 

[HoughMade]

I know a lot of British doctors locally

And you will as long as that's what they pay.

 

[Arthur Dent]

But as was explained in the article, the effect of both are the same. Seems like he prefers them vs. the more traditional EO's BECAUSE they are more stealthy and he can BS his way around the questions such as "has Obama issued more EO's than previous Presidents?"

"Like executive orders, presidential memoranda don't require action by Congress. They have the same force of law as executive orders and often have consequences just as far-reaching. And some of the most significant actions of the Obama presidency have come not by executive order but by presidential memoranda."

The fact remains the number of presidential memos issued by each president is unknown. They are published at the discretion of the president, they aren't required to be published as executive orders are.