New class of posters

[SavageEagle]

This makes 3

I'll add four.

 

[Captain Bligh]

You obviously haven't been here long...

Yeah, only about a year longer than you.

Of course, I have been reading, not making 100 posts a day so what do I know?

 

[groovatron]

I'm guilty myself. I'm not so good at troll-spotting. I catch on when I write a detailed paragraph and they respond by restating the same points I just countered as if I hadn't written anything at all.

It's unfortunate, because i enjoy nothing more than going back and forth with an intelligent person I disagree with. The idiots just drive you crazy, though.

No kidding. Eventually it's not even worth reiterating your points.
Very frustrating........but I suppose it's all worth it when you have one of those rare, intelligent conversations where one or both parties learn something

What, because he doesn't agree with you to the letter, he's trolling?
snip.
Needed: more originality and fewer accusations.
snip

Hellz yes!

Oh man. This thread has devolved.

All is see is socialism America!

Socialism seems to be the new tag word to get republicans . Just like terrorism was and communism before that. How much is being taken out for social security ALREADY? No one repealed that. Not in how many years with a republican controled house, senate, and POTUS? How about medicaid/medicare? I'd love to repeal them. "Failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part." Yet nothing is done. Ever. At least Obama didn't create THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY. That is the worst thing to happen in a very long time. If Obama did that there would be cries of "brown shirts" and "jbt's". But since it wasn't a democrat, no one had anything to say.

Yep. Even with the healthcare bill I like Obama more than Bush. A whole lot more than Bush. Obama didn't sign the Patriot Act into law, plunge us into a never ending war, and create a new branch to keep an eye on it's own people.

Many know here I am not a fan of EITHER Bush. So I guess I am Make no mistake, I do not like Obama. But one steaming pile of crap is much like the other. We haven't had anything remotely good in a very long time.

Thanks for keeping it civil!

Socialist is far to benign for what Obama's supporters are doing to this nation and our Constitution. Soviet is much more accurate.

That's just a ridiculous thing to say. Go to Russia, talk to those who lived through the former USSR, then report back. Or, how about just reading some history. It doesn't even have to be in a book. Google it for cryin' out loud.

If you still think the same, then you are obviously not a man of reason.
Saying the things you do about your government would get you executed in the former Soviet Union.

Be a man. Recognize and appreciate what you have......but always fight for more.

 

[rambone]

Yeah, only about a year longer than you.

Of course, I have been reading, not making 100 posts a day so what do I know?

I can't imagine how you have missed all the libertarians on the board then, in all your reading. If this were the GOP Fan Club that you describe then most of us wouldn't be here.

 

[steveh_131]

Yeah, only about a year longer than you.

Of course, I have been reading, not making 100 posts a day so what do I know?

Actually, his average is 9.11 posts per day.

Also you fail.

 

[dross]

To claim that "socialism" is just a new way for Republicans to say, "poopy-head" ignores the fact that Obama's history, his political moves, and much of his rhetoric are driving us towards a greater degree of socialism.

Instead of focusing on who is calling whom a socialist, I wish one of these people who seem to be here to make drive-by statements actually defend on the merits that Obama isn't a socialist. I can make the case that he is.

 

[shibumiseeker]

To claim that "socialism" is just a new way for Republicans to say, "poopy-head" ignores the fact that Obama's history, his political moves, and much of his rhetoric are driving us towards a greater degree of socialism.

Instead of focusing on who is calling whom a socialist, I wish one of these people who seem to be here to make drive-by statements actually defend on the merits that Obama isn't a socialist. I can make the case that he is.

I think the issue isn't that Obama is directing the country towards greater socialism, I don't think there are many on either side who would disagree. I think the issue is whether socialism is the boogeyman that some folks are making it out to be. There's a concerted effort to demonize socialism by turning the word and implications into something that has a similar connotation as does fascism. A LOT of people are using it as a perjorative who strike me as not really even having a grade school understanding of what it is, let alone a more sophisticated view of political theory. The simple truth is that the US society is an extremely complex mixture of political theories and practices because any of the "pure" theories have been repeatedly shown to break down as the system increases in complexity. IE, what may work on a household level breaks down at a village level which breaks down at a city level which breaks down at a state level which breaks down at a national level (for a nation the size of the US). There are so many variables in what is a highly chaotic (for the scientific meaning of "chaotic") system that it defies classification.

 

[dross]

I think the issue isn't that Obama is directing the country towards greater socialism, I don't think there are many on either side who would disagree. I think the issue is whether socialism is the boogeyman that some folks are making it out to be. There's a concerted effort to demonize socialism by turning the word and implications into something that has a similar connotation as does fascism. A LOT of people are using it as a perjorative who strike me as not really even having a grade school understanding of what it is, let alone a more sophisticated view of political theory. The simple truth is that the US society is an extremely complex mixture of political theories and practices because any of the "pure" theories have been repeatedly shown to break down as the system increases in complexity. IE, what may work on a household level breaks down at a village level which breaks down at a city level which breaks down at a state level which breaks down at a national level (for a nation the size of the US). There are so many variables in what is a highly chaotic (for the scientific meaning of "chaotic") system that it defies classification.

As one who has greater than a grade school understanding of these theories, I certainly know that we are a mixed system. With my relatively sophisticated understanding of these systems, I conclude that socialism is an inherently evil system, and most of what is wrong with our current system can be directly traced to the amount of socialism that has been mixed into our freedom. That goes for business, culture, sex, and everywhere else it has been injected. As Ayn Rand said, and I paraphrase, "In a compromise with poison, who gains but poison?"

 

[shibumiseeker]

As one who has greater than a grade school understanding of these theories, I certainly know that we are a mixed system. With my relatively sophisticated understanding of these systems, I conclude that socialism is an inherently evil system, and most of what is wrong with our current system can be directly traced to the amount of socialism that has been mixed into our freedom. That goes for business, culture, sex, and everywhere else it has been injected. As Ayn Rand said, and I paraphrase, "In a compromise with poison, who gains but poison?"

I wasn't trying to denigrate your opinions on the subject, you've made it fairly obvious that you have a much greater than average grasp of political theory and you are an intelligent and thoughtful person. But you are also very much in the minority. The vast majority of people think something is good or bad -without knowing why they think that way-.

 

[dross]

I wasn't trying to denigrate your opinions on the subject, you've made it fairly obvious that you have a much greater than average grasp of political theory and you are an intelligent and thoughtful person. But you are also very much in the minority. The vast majority of people think something is good or bad -without knowing why they think that way-.

Sorry, I didn't think you were being derogatory. Came out that way, I see. Just trying to make my point.

 

[SavageEagle]

My question is how can any amount of Socialism be even slightly good for the system as some claim it to be?

 

[Fletch]

My question is how can any amount of Socialism be even slightly good for the system as some claim it to be?

IMO, it's all in the form of socialism. Any socialism based on violence and coercion (ie, government-funded) is a detriment. Socialism based on voluntary contribution, on the other hand, is generally a good thing. There are instances in which it is not, but on the whole it's positive.

I think the error made by those who call themselves socialists is that they fail to distinguish between voluntary and involuntary cooperation, and either cannot see or do not care about the damage that force/coercion adds to the overall effect.

 

[IndyMonkey]

My question is how can any amount of Socialism be even slightly good for the system as some claim it to be?

Depends on you. If your a slug then you should love socialism.

I prefer not to have to count on someone else to feed my family.

 

[Panama]

My question is how can any amount of Socialism be even slightly good for the system as some claim it to be?

Or, can anybody cite a true socialist system, that is a shinning example of real Socialism that works?

 

[Fletch]

Or, can anybody cite a true socialist system, that is a shinning example of real Socialism that works?

Families.

 

[dross]

Families.

Not in MY house, mister. Dictatorship is the name of the game 'round here.

 

[IndyMonkey]

Not in MY house, mister. Dictatorship is the name of the game 'round here.

+1 no way will my kids have nicer stuff than me.

 

[Panama]

Families.

I was really looking for something on the slightly larger scale, as in countries, that are success stories of Socialism.

 

[IndyMonkey]

I was really looking for something on the slightly larger scale, as in countries, that are success stories of Socialism.

Now your getting kind of picky.

 

[Panama]

Now your getting kind of picky.

Sorry, that is just the Fascist in me.