My son has/had me looking at used GM Silverados and Sierras until I learned of GM frame rust/rot...

[bwframe]

How much of the rust issues on modern truck frames is that they are constantly seeking weight reduction to achieve govt fuel economy mandates? In old vehicles, didn't they have much more metal to rust before structure integrity was compromised?

Also wonder if some of the problem is the salt brine the highway depts now spray ahead of possible icing? The lines we see in the road.

 

[Gunmetalgray]

Better steels exist. They just choose not to use them in the frame. Look at the stainless steel exhaust systems that now last 25+ years and still look clean. Manufacturers keep adding frills like stupid folding tailgates, flippin 20+ inch flat panel displays and ridiculous LED exterior running lights and skimp on the structure, like the frame. Just like home builders. $100+/sqft countertops but cardboard or styrofoam for sheathing. NTSB could step in and help the situation by requiring no degradation in crash test results over a 20 yr period (so when vehicle is 20 yrs old it's equivalent to when new), but that just ain't gonna happen.

 

[BigRed]

I have often wondered how the most brilliant engineers cannot figure out to retard rust on a truck beyond a few years.

 

[ghuns]

I have often wondered how the most brilliant engineers cannot figure out to retard rust on a truck beyond a few years.

I work in the automotive industry. I deal with engineers from various car companies on a daily basis. I have yet to meet a brilliant one.

In 25 years I've run into a handful of smart ones, but not brilliant.

The only brilliant engineers I've run into came from the electronics industry and they all had degrees from Rose-Hulman.

Besides, car companies aren't engineering driven anymore. They are run by their marketing and accounting departments.

 

[churchmouse]

I work in the automotive industry. I deal with engineers from various car companies on a daily basis. I have yet to meet a brilliant one.

In 25 years I've run into a handful of smart ones, but not brilliant.

The only brilliant engineers I've run into came from the electronics industry and they all had degrees from Rose-Hulman.

Besides, car companies aren't engineering driven anymore. They are run by their marketing and accounting departments.

They engineer to the warr.

 

[avboiler11]

Clearly modern trucks suck with their crew cabs and heated seats and bluetooth.

The paragon of truckiness was a mid-80s squarebody. Regular cab, 8’ bed, live axles and a carbureted small block with less than 200hp getting 9mpg.

“Ohhhhhhh like a rock”

(My 2017 Silverado has no frame surface rust)

 

[ghuns]

Clearly modern trucks suck with their crew cabs and heated seats and bluetooth.

The paragon of truckiness was a mid-80s squarebody. Regular cab, 8’ bed, live axles and a carbureted small block with less than 200hp getting 9mpg.

“Ohhhhhhh like a rock”

(My 2017 Silverado has no frame surface rust)

At least the good old squarebodies had the body rust off the frame in short order, not vice versa.

 

[avboiler11]

At least the good old squarebodies had the body rust off the frame in short order, not vice versa.

Their frames repelled rust, right into the cab corners.

 

[ghuns]

Their frames repelled rust, right into the cab corners.

And the rocker panels, and the floor boards, and the fender liners, and the bedsides...

I had a '78 back in the mid 90s and lost the tailgate, the only rust free body panel on it, on the way to work one morning. Everything that was supposed to be holding it just disappeared.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Clearly modern trucks suck with their crew cabs and heated seats and bluetooth.

The paragon of truckiness was a mid-80s squarebody. Regular cab, 8’ bed, live axles and a carbureted small block with less than 200hp getting 9mpg.

“Ohhhhhhh like a rock”

(My 2017 Silverado has no frame surface rust)

Maybe mid 70s, back before AC was fairly common and AM radios with a single speaker in the dash let you almost hear the music over the beating you were taking.

Although I did like the 8' bed for when I trucked with my truck more than the very occasional trucking. You know how young guys are about trucking. Always truck this and truck that. Wait, what were we talking about?

 

[BiscuitsandGravy]

I have often wondered how the most brilliant engineers cannot figure out to retard rust on a truck beyond a few years.

They wake up in the morning, look into the mirror and say... "today I am going to design a truck frame that will completely disintegrate in only a few years and I am proud of that." Un-f-ing-believable. Its like they skipped the day they taught corrosion treatment in truck building school. Ever hear of hot-dip or any other anti-corrosion treatment technology. They should be ashamed of themselves (but are not).

Take $100 out of the stupid technology and put it into corrosion tech for your frames dumbarses.

Yea, "Like a rock" that crumbles.

 

[gregkl]

What is it that CM says often; "follow the money"? They could engineer and build vehicles that are pretty much bulletproof.

Then we would all be complaining about how expensive they are.

If you don't want rust, you have two choices; drive it for a few years and get a new one or get underneath it and scrub it and make sure you are hand washing it often and getting copious amounts of water in the known problem areas to keep the dirt flushed out.

You can save your Ram rear wheel wells from rusting. It just takes some work.

I had a Chevrolet Vega back when I was a kid(still had gas lights and all that, lol). The front fenders would rust out on the top. This was do to not so not bright engineering that created a "shelf" up there that would trap dirt, get wet and rot the unfinished steel very quickly. I made sure to get my hose up underneath and flush it out good when I washed it. It never rusted on me.

 

[BE Mike]

What is it that CM says often; "follow the money"? They could engineer and build vehicles that are pretty much bulletproof.

Then we would all be complaining about how expensive they are.

Wow, have you priced a full size crew cab with all the bells and whistles lately? $50,000+ to start!

 

[ghuns]

...Then we would all be complaining about how expensive they are...

If you're NOT complaining about how expensive they are, you haven't priced one lately. Or in the last 20 years.

Trucks are outrageously expensive and far and away the most profitable vehicles sold. But the automakers want MORE. So they cut costs and with it quality. But people keep buying them so don't expect anything to change.

 

[Huzrjim]

My 2010 F150 Lariat has body rust right below the doors, especially noticeable when you open the rear half doors. Known issue now, but apparently the drain holes for those areas were so small that they clogged easily.

 

[gregkl]

If you're NOT complaining about how expensive they are, you haven't priced one lately. Or in the last 20 years.

Trucks are outrageously expensive and far and away the most profitable vehicles sold. But the automakers want MORE. So they cut costs and with it quality. But people keep buying them so don't expect anything to change.

You know me. I'm in the industry also. And yes, I am fully aware of vehicle pricing and based on what I see from the inside, I don't know how we can buy vehicles so cheap! (actually I do. It's all about volume).

But when I see a $1,000,000 price tag the OEM has to pay in tooling, not including the piece price, in order to get 4 assist grips into a Tundra, how do they do it?

That said, to my level of affluence, cars are all expensive. I did a pricing exercise the other day; I took the current offering of small/mid-sized trucks to see what I could get a one step above the baseline model for. They came in from $37.5-42.2 with the exception of the Maverick which was $32.8. Then I thought I'd see what I could do with full size trucks. I hit $50K without even trying.

Heck, the most I have paid for a vehicle is a little over $13K. I can't wrap my head around $50K price tags.

 

[HoughMade]

Their frames repelled rust, right into the cab corners.

Hah! Very true.

For the 3 years I sold used vehicles, around 40% of them were square bodies (50% were S series). Our body guy could knock out cab corners so fast it didn't even seem like a problem.

 

[HoughMade]

Wow, have you priced a full size crew cab with all the bells and whistles lately? $50,000+ to start!

All the bells and whistles? $65k before this latest mess.

 

[ghuns]

Buddy's new Platinum Edition F350, crew cab, 4x4, diesel stickered around $82K.

He's a good customer so he didn't pay that when he ordered it back in June. When it came in a few weeks ago, dealer said they'd give him $85K for it. He passed.

 

[BigRed]

I wish Ford would make a simple, plain Jane body on frame 4x4 pickup.... think 90s era Ranger.... for under 30K

and the Maverick is not it.