My Preacher/Pastor carrys

[kwatters]

Would go against the who turn the other cheek notion to me.

Yeah, that is often misquoted.


Explain Luke 22:36 then.

He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."

Jesus knew the world was a dangerous place and gave the disciples instructions to protect themselves.

 

[sbcman]

Pirate has a point. Also, "Those who live by the sword, die by the sword."

Carrying for protection of myself, loved ones and even church members is entirely different than living by the sword. Neither me or any of my carrying church family are telling people to convert, tithe or get baptized while looking down the barrel. Same goes for all Christians who carry for protection and abide by the law.

I now feel like watching The Patriot

 

[mcafeesd]

Yep. I knew this would be a good question. I wonder how the opinions would break down according to denomination? Anyway, I appreciate the thoughtful answers thus far. I am really glad I joined this group.

 

[youngda9]

I would think it's awesome...would give us a reason to hang out.

 

[Hayseed_40]

Pirate has a point. Also, "Those who live by the sword, die by the sword." But I cannot shake the image of the pastor in the movie Patriot. when he points out that sometimes the shepherd must drive off the wolves.

no he doesn't, well he has a point - just not a good one as others has refuted

 

[Hayseed_40]

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...5-question_why_would_you_carry_at_church.html

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Good question, can't wait to read what folks say.

I am a pastor, have an LTCH and carry all the time- church services included. Most of my folks know I carry and am pro-2A. I know of noone in my congregation that isn't pro-2A. I know of at least 5 that carry while in church. So far as I know, everyone is cool with it, but I can only guess what folks think. Titanium Frost and Mrs. Frost both attend; I'm pretty sure they can dig it.

The area I live in is pro-2A as well. We all have "backyard ranges" and shooting generally starts around here at 8:00am and ends around 5:00pm. That might have something to do with perception.

Let me ask this question to you, OP: How do you feel about it?

With TF in the congregation, I would carry too.


I am all for pastors carrying. I feel as a leader they are obligated to protect the congregation as needed.

Problem. My treasurer and her spouse are two of my most avid gun-nuts in the congregation. I don't know that the ammo would reach me.

Yes! I just got my new sig line. Rep incoming

OMG I'm laughing so hard...

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Carrying for protection of myself, loved ones and even church members is entirely different than living by the sword. Neither me or any of my carrying church family are telling people to convert, tithe or get baptized while looking down the barrel. Same goes for all Christians who carry for protection and abide by the law.

I now feel like watching The Patriot

I just did! Great movie and it just came on Netflix again this week. I plan on watching it again Sunday with Colt for Fathers Day. Great father/son moments to think about for sure but I would implode if I had to watch ANY of my kids die in front of me.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I am all for pastors carrying. I feel as a leader they are obligated to protect the congregation as needed.

I am in favor of a RIFLE behind the pulpit because I sit in the back row... If I have rounds flyin over my head I don't want them coming from a snubbie .38!

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

Not church people myself, but I wouldn't think a second thought about it. "Turning the other cheek" doesn't mean not protecting yourself or yours from a real threat, just staying don't be a jerk in return for another being a jerk. Protecting you and yours is your mandate.

I was driving when we picked GF's son up at VBS and she asked if I'd like to come in. I asked if they had a permanent daycare, and told her I couldn't leave the vehicle, had to splain it to her later. I'd go see her sing if the pastor told me it was ok with him, but gotta have permission.

 

[possum_128]

My wife is a retired Paster from a city church in Indy. She always carried and the church members all knew it. They called her the PPP
(pistol packing preacher).

 

[indyjoe]

Turn the other cheek is more of a subversive thing than many understand.

Matthew 5 v 38-48
"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Why is the right cheek specified here? There were no Left handed people back in biblical times. It was trained out of you early. The right hand was the noble hand. How you greeted people. How you ate. The left hand was ignoble. It performed tasks such as wiping your butt. To be slapped on the right cheek would be a backhanded slap from the right hand. This is a servant to master slap. A slap of dominance. To turn the cheek would require them to hit you with their palm. That was now a gesture that was only done between equals. This actually shames that striker more than the one being stuck. It is very clever subversion.

If someone wants your tunic, give them your cloak as well. Those times, someone had but two pieces of clothing, a tunic and cloak. If they want to take one, give them all. People were not wearing underwear. Again a subversive response that shames the taker.

Roman soldiers were within their right to demand that a Jew carry their things for around a mile (defined by Roman law). If that Jew carried them longer, it made a statement that he is no longer in and oppressor/oppressed relationship, but now exercising his freedom. This allow a more receptive person toward with you can evangelize.

The teaching of Jesus were more subversive than many people understand. These are not teachings about protecting one self from dangers of life, but how to carry yourself to show the grace of God. Showing that you may be oppressed, but are of better character than the oppressor.

 

[theweakerbrother]

Turn the other cheek is more of a subversive thing than many understand.

Matthew 5 v 38-48
"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Why is the right cheek specified here? There were no Left handed people back in biblical times. It was trained out of you early. The right hand was the noble hand. How you greeted people. How you ate. The left hand was ignoble. It performed tasks such as wiping your butt. To be slapped on the right cheek would be a backhanded slap from the right hand. This is a servant to master slap. A slap of dominance. To turn the cheek would require them to hit you with their palm. That was now a gesture that was only done between equals. This actually shames that striker more than the one being stuck. It is very clever subversion.

If someone wants your tunic, give them your cloak as well. Those times, someone had but two pieces of clothing, a tunic and cloak. If they want to take one, give them all. People were not wearing underwear. Again a subversive response that shames the taker.

Roman soldiers were within their right to demand that a Jew carry their things for around a mile (defined by Roman law). If that Jew carried them longer, it made a statement that he is no longer in and oppressor/oppressed relationship, but now exercising his freedom. This allow a more receptive person toward with you can evangelize.

The teaching of Jesus were more subversive than many people understand. These are not teachings about protecting one self from dangers of life, but how to carry yourself to show the grace of God. Showing that you may be oppressed, but are of better character than the oppressor.

Nailed it, more or less.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Turn the other cheek is more of a subversive thing than many understand.

Matthew 5 v 38-48
"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Why is the right cheek specified here? There were no Left handed people back in biblical times. It was trained out of you early. The right hand was the noble hand. How you greeted people. How you ate. The left hand was ignoble. It performed tasks such as wiping your butt. To be slapped on the right cheek would be a backhanded slap from the right hand. This is a servant to master slap. A slap of dominance. To turn the cheek would require them to hit you with their palm. That was now a gesture that was only done between equals. This actually shames that striker more than the one being stuck. It is very clever subversion.

If someone wants your tunic, give them your cloak as well. Those times, someone had but two pieces of clothing, a tunic and cloak. If they want to take one, give them all. People were not wearing underwear. Again a subversive response that shames the taker.

Roman soldiers were within their right to demand that a Jew carry their things for around a mile (defined by Roman law). If that Jew carried them longer, it made a statement that he is no longer in and oppressor/oppressed relationship, but now exercising his freedom. This allow a more receptive person toward with you can evangelize.

The teaching of Jesus were more subversive than many people understand. These are not teachings about protecting one self from dangers of life, but how to carry yourself to show the grace of God. Showing that you may be oppressed, but are of better character than the oppressor.

FANTASTIC post! I applaud your knowledge of local customs in Roman times and their affect on Biblical teachings that we take for granted are 2000 years old and from a MUCH different culture. I really learned something there and now I have to study up on it.

Do you have any readily available sources for this?

 

[esrice]

Ok guys, we're starting to get into the territory of "religious discussion", which isn't allowed on this particular board. Stick to the topic of carrying please. I realize it can be difficult when the topic is carrying in a church.

 

[eldirector]

Do you have any readily available sources for this?

Wikipedia has a decent summary of this, with citations for more research.
Turning the other cheek - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You'll have to tease out the social/cultural bits from the religious bits. It is quite amazing how the meaning of a bit of text can change so much over time. Cultural and social norms have such a huge influence. Just look at how our interpretation of the US Constitution is debated, and it doesn't even need translated!

 

[goinggreyfast]

The last three pastors I have sat under carry or just applied for their LTCH. I know of quite a few others who carry. I am Clergy as well. Quite a few of the men in the last three congregations I have attended are carriers too.

 

[WestSider]

My pastor has a few guns, including a Glock and a Kel-Tec P3AT. I believe he has his LTCH but I don't know how often he carries, I have been shooting with him a couple times.

 

[Hoosierdood]

I'm a pastor, and I carry all the time... even while preaching. Most of the members know that I carry. There are at least 3 others in my congregation who are always carrying as well. I do know of at least one person in my church who is adamantly against guns, but that doesn't stop me. Church is about the only place that I don't open carry.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Ok guys, we're starting to get into the territory of "religious discussion", which isn't allowed on this particular board. Stick to the topic of carrying please. I realize it can be difficult when the topic is carrying in a church.

Could you provide us with a clearer definition of what type of discussion is considered 'religious' because I could talk all day about the Bible and never delve into what I consider 'religious territory.'

Thanks.