MY PERSONAL PATH AWAY FROM THE 1911 (Hilton Yam)

[cedartop]

For those who don't know him, this is sorta like obama saying he wants to balance the budget by doing away with welfare, or that C.C. and O.C. should be allowed in every state without a permit. Well, maybe not quite that far out, but you get the idea.

It has been noted more than once that lately there seem to have been many MSW articles recommending against the use of the 1911 as a service pistol. This is not really a new trend, and even since the days of the 10-8 Forums we have always cautioned folks that the 1911 is not for the casual user.

Read the rest Here.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

*stunned silence . . . emphasis on stunned*

 

[Tyler-The-Piker]

I read it. And a lot of the comments echo Kirk's feelings.
Interesting to say the least...

 

[9mmfan]

Wow, never thought I'd hear a 1911 guy like that tell the truth.There's nothing 'wrong' with the 1911 like there's nothing 'wrong' with a 1940 Ford. The Ford could still be a daily driver but it would take a lot of maintenance to keep it running in tip top shape.
I expect a flock of Colt fans to be by soon to have their say.

 

[iChokePeople]

Hilton Yam is dead to me.

 

[cedartop]

Seemed to be having some linking problems. Hope that is better.

Sorry iCP.

 

[IUprof]

I hope the USMC doesn't read this!

 

[nra4ever]

Hilton Yam is dead to me.

Just like the link.

It does not work

 

[cedartop]

I hope the USMC doesn't read this!

Actually I will have to look for the link, but they seem to be having a lot of problems with theirs and I want to say I remember seeing that they put a hold on any new ones.

 

[shooter521]

The gist of the article:

"If you enjoy the craftsmanship of a finely built 1911 or you enjoy tinkering on your own, by all means continue to enjoy them. However, if training, shooting, and performance is your primary goal and you lack the resources, time, patience, or knowledge to keep after a 1911, then be realistic and choose something more modern."

Hilton has held this position for the last couple years at least. Can't say as I disagree, but then I've never been a "1911 guy," and don't get a lot of ego/emotion invested in my defense tools to begin with.

 

[nra4ever]

Well it's a heck of a time to read this. I just picked up used full rail old school operator with NM serial number. Now what?

Maybe they should have not gone with kimber.

 

[iChokePeople]

Well it's a heck of a time to read this. I just picked up used full rail old school operator with NM serial number. Now what?

Maybe they should have not gone with kimber.

a statement like that from hilton yam is not specifically about kimbers.

Before he was dead to me, I would have said there are only maybe 10 guys alive that I'd put in his class when it comes to 1911 expertise.

 

[nra4ever]

I said kimber because the guns that let him and his buddies down were kimbers. He said so if you read the article. May have been a different result with a different manufacturer or even model. I don't think he mentioned which model kimber they were using. It did seem like the class also had failures but no mention of which manufacturers or models.

 

[10mmfan]

Wow I wonder if the FBI swat teams know what a high maintainance unreliable gun they carry. Does the Marine corp know about this they just did a contract with colt for the new m45 1911 pistol. I personally have never had a problem with my 1911s that wasn't traced to ammo , I have seen colts and Kimbers have some of the problems Mr. Yam refers to in his article. My 2 Springfields have never had a problem that was gun related. I have about 4000 rounds down range through the pair. Calling a 1911 a crutch is like saying an Indy car is a crutch to good driving. An Indy car requires more skill and maintainance to keep in top form than a Subaru outback does but who is gonna drive that Subaru anywhere nearly as good as the Indy car? It takes a higher level of skill and commitment but that's why it's an experts tool of choice and to those of us that aren't experts or professionals can still enjoy and be well served by a nice 1911.

 

[iChokePeople]

I said kimber because the guns that let him and his buddies down were kimbers. He said so if you read the article. May have been a different result with a different manufacturer or even model. I don't think he mentioned which model kimber they were using. It did seem like the class also had failures but no mention of which manufacturers or models.

Ok, if that's the way you understood what he was saying, go with that.

 

[cedartop]

Wow I wonder if the FBI swat teams know what a high maintainance unreliable gun they carry. Does the Marine corp know about this they just did a contract with colt for the new m45 1911 pistol. I personally have never had a problem with my 1911s that wasn't traced to ammo , I have seen colts and Kimbers have some of the problems Mr. Yam refers to in his article. My 2 Springfields have never had a problem that was gun related. I have about 4000 rounds down range through the pair. Calling a 1911 a crutch is like saying an Indy car is a crutch to good driving. An Indy car requires more skill and maintainance to keep in top form than a Subaru outback does but who is gonna drive that Subaru anywhere nearly as good as the Indy car? It takes a higher level of skill and commitment but that's why it's an experts tool of choice and to those of us that aren't experts or professionals can still enjoy and be well served by a nice 1911.

This one addresses a lot of that. Maybe you already read it. The Real Truth About 1911s | Modern Service Weapons I am getting into my 1911 but it won't be my go to gun.

 

[VERT]

Oops. After Cedartop bought his first 1911 this winter I thought it was safe to finally retire the old Glock 23. I actually unloaded the old girl and stored it away in the safe just this weekend. Going to replace it with a commander sized 1911.

I agree the 1911 needs a lot of maintenance and I admit I have been lax. Mine has about 3500 rounds through only being field stripped and lubed. It has had only 1 malfunction (with the exception of the slide not wanting to lock when empty) and in that case the cartridge sounded and felt under powered. I have no doubt I will have to start replacing springs/extractor and detail strip in the near future.

 

[Bfish]

Hey Cedartop fantastic article! It is nice to see such honesty in journalism with all that is out there today. Very refreshing read… I like the perspective and appreciated how well it was written.

I love 1911's just as much as anyone with just how stinking good they look but I couldn't use them seriously just out of fear for messing up something so pretty. Its like how I am jumping over puddles and tip toeing around anytime I get a new pair of shoes I think… But this is how I feel and beside the point I suppose. But I am a lover of the gun no matter how I look at it.

Again good article and a great read, thanks for sharing it!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

When most shooters with modern pistols went to the line with 2-3 magazines of 15+ rounds, it could get really tiresome juggling 4-6 8rd magazines just to keep up with the drills.

That's the fault of the drill, not the gun. I don't know what most of these drills are training you for, but no one gets that much time against that many opponents in a plausible self-defense scenario. Like floods, you may have the 50 year shootout or the 100 year shootout, but given we're still talking about the LA bank robbery shootout it shows the rarity of these events. These drills are part of the over emphasis on capacity at the expense of ergonomics and shootability.

Failures tend to stand out, especially if you're the guy who gets called every time one fails. If you worked on GE dishwashers all day, you'd say "these things are trash, every time I see one its broken"...yes, because no one calls the repairman to say "my dishwasher is working great, just thought you should know." 1911s are also highly tinkered with guns. As soon as Cletus Ray buys one he's got to start swapping out parts he doesn't understand for other parts he doesn't understand because "Wilson Combat" is more awesomer or whatever. Tinkered with guns, especially Cletus tinkering, results in a higher failure rate.

My own experience has been more failures to feed with a Glock than with a 1911. I've yet to find a gun I shoot as well as a 1911. He may not need the crutch any more, but I sure enjoyed it when I could. I'll take any crutch I can get, because I'm not as good as he is. His mistakes are so minute that amplifying them has no appreciable result. My mistakes are more noticeable, and thus amplified more.

I haven't carried a 1911 for many years now, I'm quite adequate with other guns, but I'm not buying his logic.

 

[bwframe]

I don't disagree about reliability problems with modern day, mass produced 1911's. I have seen a fair amount of failures in classes and at matches. They need to be wrung out thoroughly and maintained. The 1911 is NOT a carried a lot, shot very little sort of gun.

Then there is that little thumb shelf, that is a learning curve in itself. A real problem for those not dedicated exclusively to the platform.

I recommend to new shooters to master a modern gun such as the LEO's use. Later they can specialize to guns used by more unique professionals. I'm betting Mr Yam has a similar thought process along with a slight profit motive.