Mr. Jefferson Would Not Approve

[hornadylnl]

Standing at a polling place with a night stick is permissible. Dancing in a public place is not. What's the problem?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Huh...
I do not see that connection at all. I think you are just being argumentative.

In what way? If it was a group of Arabs dancing the "down with America" boogey in the memorial, people would be up in arms.

No permit, no dance... can you name a public or non-public governmental building where such expression would be ok on the premises, sans a permit?

 

[Stschil]

Soooooo, it's ok the have a 'Million Man March' on Federal Property becuase it's PC, but a small group of people who have a different agenda can't excersise their own right of expression peacefully?

I am in no way trying to make this a race issue, just making an observation. Washington DC draws all sorts of people with whatever agendas every day. Why is one OK to do and not another?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Soooooo, it's ok the have a 'Million Man March' on Federal Property becuase it's PC, but a small group of people who have a different agenda can't excersise their own right of expression peacefully?

I am in no way trying to make this a race issue, just making an observation. Washington DC draws all sorts of people with whatever agendas every day. Why is one OK to do and not another?

Even that crackpot, Farraconartist, had a permit, so it kinda takes away from your point

 

[hornadylnl]

Even that crackpot, Farraconartist, had a permit, so it kinda takes away from your point

Here's the updated first amendment.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances... So long as you have a permit.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Here's the updated first amendment.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances... So long as you have a permit.

Yeah, outside the building your golden... inside, not so much. You do understand that they "in" the memorial right?

 

[hornadylnl]

Yeah, outside the building your golden... inside, not so much. You do understand that they "in" the memorial right?

I understand that it's public property. Millions of people know about this incident because they were arrested. If they were left alone, only the ladders by would know about it. The best way to silence the crackpots is to ignore them. The cops play right into the hands of the nutjob protesters and give them a national podium. Isn't requiring a permit an abridgement of the first?

 

[Kutnupe14]

I understand that it's public property. Millions of people know about this incident because they were arrested. If they were left alone, only the ladders by would know about it. The best way to silence the crackpots is to ignore them. The cops play right into the hands of the nutjob protesters and give them a national podium. Isn't requiring a permit an abridgement of the first?

No, it's not.... unless you deem anything owned by the govt public property. As for requiring a permit, that depends. If permits are universally given, with consideration given to the ability to control the crowd (ie to protect the rest of the public), then I would say no. If permits are approved denied on the whim of an individual, I'd say yes.

 

[Stschil]

Even that crackpot, Farraconartist, had a permit, so it kinda takes away from your point

Just using a very well known example, that's all.

Having been stationed just outside of DC in the early 80's, I frequently spent time on the Mall, checking out the attractions, Smithsonians, Monuments, etc. I recall that there always seemed to be one group or another who were singing, dancing, playing protest music, etc when I was there. Yet, I don't ever recall seeing any of them being approached by Park Police, being told to stop, being arrested, or anything like that.

Maybe it's just a sign of the times we live in.

 

[E5RANGER375]

And this a problem why? They were given notice of what NOT to do, and they did it anyway.... Trespassing, right? Kudos to the officers, they were respectful, and weren't "badge heavy" in the slightest. The people were looking for trouble.... and found it.

Are Americans this stupid? Dance has many political, cultural, religious, and even military meanings to a variety of cultures around the world. Hell, at he very least, it's disrespectful.... to the honor bestowed upon Jefferson.

Further, courts have held for eons that monuments and memorials are "non-public" forums.

The Supreme Court has held that as to such nonpublic forum property, the government’s authority is indeed quite broad, so long as the restriction is reasonable and viewpoint-neutral. The Memorial is a good example of a nonpublic forum, a place not open, by tradition or by government decision, for public expression;

thats all I could do when I read this post.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Just using a very well known example, that's all.

Having been stationed just outside of DC in the early 80's, I frequently spent time on the Mall, checking out the attractions, Smithsonians, Monuments, etc. I recall that there always seemed to be one group or another who were singing, dancing, playing protest music, etc when I was there. Yet, I don't ever recall seeing any of them being approached by Park Police, being told to stop, being arrested, or anything like that.

Maybe it's just a sign of the times we live in.

yep its all hype created by the govt after 9/11 to rush in a police state. if you wanna see a police state then visit DC now or fly on a plane.

im a younger guy and even I remember places like DC and flying on a plane when we were a "free" country. not anymore. thats honestly what you get when you let police and military run free and do what they want and take their advice. its just like if it was up to the secret service the president would never leave his bunker, ever. now we live in a police state and we are all treated like poo by the people who WE supposedly control .

 

[ElsiePeaRN]

Hell, at he very least, it's disrespectful.... to the honor bestowed upon Jefferson.

I agreed with you right up to this point. The fact is, a court found that dancing at the Memorial was illegal. However stupid that decision is, that was the decision and the group knew that. When one engages in civil disobedience, one expects to be arrested. That's sort of the whole point.

But how on earth is silently dancing "disrespectful to the honor bestowed on Jefferson" ???? That is way over the top IMO. This whole thing started a few years ago when a small group went to HONOR Jefferson at the memorial on his birthday by dancing to their own music. He might think it was ridiculous, but he'd support their right to express themselves in that way.

Looking again at how you wrote that sentence, you may be right that it's disrespectful to "the honor bestowed" because we Americans tend to mix up the honor bestowed on something or someone with what the thing or person actually stands for. This is in no way disrespectful to the memory of Jefferson, but might be to our twisted way of "bestowing honor" upon him.

 

[level.eleven]

...and fyi, Jefferson discourage celebrations in his honor.

Yet a huge monument was erected in his honor....

 

[hornadylnl]

So the Jefferson memorial is not public property?

 

[jeremy]

So the Jefferson memorial is not public property?

Huh...

Apparently not...

 

[hornadylnl]

Huh...

Apparently not...

I guess we can get our tax money back for it then.

I propose every Leo should have to raise children to the age of 5 before becoming a Leo. Then they might understand how to better handle protesters. Do you acknowledge every single tantrum your kids throw? Are not some tantrums better handle by ignoring them instead of going postal on them?

 

[thompal]

You arent thinking correctly. No offense. The 80% wont just sit on their butts, they will eat the 10%. <--- like popcorn.

I just heard on the radio, Mitch Daniels say "The people who say that America wont pay its debts, that it will collapse and congress wont fix the predictable crises we are facing... dont have enough trust in the American people, I do trust the American people, I trust them not to spend beyond their means, to take the hard steps necessary so that our children arent left with the bill".

Well Mr. Daniels... I dont. I think Americans will keep on spending, not fix the issues, and pay the price. Do you know why? Because we always have.

History is a good predictor of the future. Human nature doesnt change. Parents dont care enough about their children to give up "entitlements" that they "earned".

Mitch probably thinks that we should just sell or lease some more property to a foreign country to raise some cash. If we sell or lease enough of our property, we would have enough cash, right? Something we don't use much, like Nebraska, for example.

 

[jeremy]

I guess we can get our tax money back for it then.

I propose every Leo should have to raise children to the age of 5 before becoming a Leo. Then they might understand how to better handle protesters. Do you acknowledge every single tantrum your kids throw? Are not some tantrums better handle by ignoring them instead of going postal on them?

I wish I could get my Tax monies back from these bastages...

 

[Roadie]

In what way? If it was a group of Arabs dancing the "down with America" boogey in the memorial, people would be up in arms.

No permit, no dance... can you name a public or non-public governmental building where such expression would be ok on the premises, sans a permit?

The WI Statehouse comes to mind..

Wow, you really think two people hugging each other, and swaying back and forth being arrested was a "good job" by the Officers in question??

Can you let us know what area you patrol so we can avoid it?

 

[Ogre]

The WI Statehouse comes to mind..

Wow, you really think two people hugging each other, and swaying back and forth being arrested was a "good job" by the Officers in question??

Can you let us know what area you patrol so we can avoid it?