Monroe County Sheriff R. Lutz -1

[Titanium_Frost]

But the officer himself is not a unit of government. Act 292 preempts units of government and political subdivisions from enacting restrictions. Insinuating to somebody that their actions are not legal is still not the same as actions adverse to someones rights.

IC 3-5-2-38
"Political subdivision"
**** Sec. 38. "Political subdivision" means a county, city, town, township, school corporation, public library, local housing authority, fire protection district, public transportation corporation, local building authority, local hospital authority or corporation, local airport authority, special service district, special taxing district, or other type of local governmental corporate entity



**** ****

Information Maintained by the Office of Code Revision Indiana Legislative Services Agency

IC 35-47-11.1
**** Chapter 11.1. Local Regulation of Firearms, Ammunition, and Firearm Accessories


IC 35-47-11.1-1
Application
**** Sec. 1. This chapter applies to a political subdivision (as defined in IC*3-5-2-38).
As added by P.L.152-2011, SEC.4.

IC 35-47-11.1-2
Political subdivision regulation of firearms, ammunition, and firearm accessories prohibited
**** Sec. 2. Except as provided in section 4 of this chapter, a political subdivision may not regulate:
********(1) firearms, ammunition, and firearm accessories;
********(2) the ownership, possession, carrying, transportation, registration, transfer, and storage of firearms, ammunition, and firearm accessories; and
********(3) commerce in and taxation of firearms, firearm ammunition, and firearm accessories.
As added by P.L.152-2011, SEC.4.

IC 35-47-11.1-3
Voidance of political subdivision ordinances, measures, enactments, rules, policies, and exercises of proprietary authority
**** Sec. 3. Any provision of an ordinance, measure, enactment, rule, or policy or exercise of proprietary authority of a political subdivision or of an employee or agent of a political subdivision acting in an official capacity:
********(1) enacted or undertaken before, on, or after June 30, 2011; and
********(2) that pertains to or affects the matters listed in section 2 of this chapter;
is void.

SB292 also preempted political subdivisions from enforcing policies about firearms. There doesn't have to be a law or ordinance contrary to state law just an agent of a political subdivision enforcing his opinion rather than law. The deputy is an agent of the county and being a 'deputized' agent of the county he is the county's representative and his actions reflect on it. If you can find some evidence to back up your claim I would be happy to look into it.

I am not saying this issue deserves a lawsuit, far from it IMO but his department needs to realize the deep they just stepped in and correct it ASAP.

How about "color of law", I think thats what its called?

Something like that, lol.

 

[goinggreyfast]

How about "color of law", I think thats what its called?

Something like that, lol.

In this case, the "color of law" would be "BROWN" on more than one level. Wouldn't you agree???

 

[Hotdoger]

IC 3-5-2-38
"Political subdivision"
**** Sec. 38. "Political subdivision" means a county, city, town, township, school corporation, public library, local housing authority, fire protection district, public transportation corporation, local building authority, local hospital authority or corporation, local airport authority, special service district, special taxing district, or other type of local governmental corporate entity



**** ****

Information Maintained by the Office of Code Revision Indiana Legislative Services Agency

IC 35-47-11.1
**** Chapter 11.1. Local Regulation of Firearms, Ammunition, and Firearm Accessories


IC 35-47-11.1-1
Application
**** Sec. 1. This chapter applies to a political subdivision (as defined in IC*3-5-2-38).
As added by P.L.152-2011, SEC.4.

IC 35-47-11.1-2
Political subdivision regulation of firearms, ammunition, and firearm accessories prohibited
**** Sec. 2. Except as provided in section 4 of this chapter, a political subdivision may not regulate:
********(1) firearms, ammunition, and firearm accessories;
********(2) the ownership, possession, carrying, transportation, registration, transfer, and storage of firearms, ammunition, and firearm accessories; and
********(3) commerce in and taxation of firearms, firearm ammunition, and firearm accessories.
As added by P.L.152-2011, SEC.4.

IC 35-47-11.1-3
Voidance of political subdivision ordinances, measures, enactments, rules, policies, and exercises of proprietary authority
**** Sec. 3. Any provision of an ordinance, measure, enactment, rule, or policy or exercise of proprietary authority of a political subdivision or of an employee or agent of a political subdivision acting in an official capacity:
********(1) enacted or undertaken before, on, or after June 30, 2011; and
********(2) that pertains to or affects the matters listed in section 2 of this chapter;
is void.

SB292 also preempted political subdivisions from enforcing policies about firearms. There doesn't have to be a law or ordinance contrary to state law just an agent of a political subdivision enforcing his opinion rather than law. The deputy is an agent of the county and being a 'deputized' agent of the county he is the county's representative and his actions reflect on it. If you can find some evidence to back up your claim I would be happy to look into it.




Something like that, lol.

There is no actual rule to enforce. Since the officer is an employeee of an actual subdivision I don't see how that makes him the actual subdivision.


What really is the issue is following a police order.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

There is no actual rule to enforce. Since the officer is an employeee of an actual subdivision I don't see how that makes him the actual subdivision.


What really is the issue is following a police order.

Look at the IC I posted. It SPECIFICALLY states employees of a political subdivision are included.

Well I guess you found a big ol loophole in our new law that none of the lawyers saw, if they don't write it down they can enforce whatever they want!

If the deputy in question continued with his insistence that the OP needed to conceal his handgun he would be in very clear violation of this law and open up his department to a civil suit. How it stands is he did not force the OP to conceal, yet; therefore, his department needs to be aware of his actions to prevent escalation at a further date and setting them up for a lawsuit.

 

[Hotdoger]

Look at the IC I posted. It SPECIFICALLY states employees of a political subdivision are included.

Well I guess you found a big ol loophole in our new law that none of the lawyers saw, if they don't write it down they can enforce whatever they want!

I never infered they could. But thanks for the SA answer.

If the deputy in question continued with his insistence that the OP needed to conceal his handgun he would be in very clear violation of this law and open up his department to a civil suit. How it stands is he did not force the OP to conceal, yet; therefore, his department needs to be aware of his actions to prevent escalation at a further date and setting them up for a lawsuit.

I could see where you think IC 35-47-11.1-3 would cover your ideas, yet I think the actual subdivision would use the arguement he was acting outside of the subdivision's ordinances, measures, enactments, rules, policies, and exercises of proprietary authority.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I could see where you think IC 35-47-11.1-3 would cover your ideas, yet I think the actual subdivision would use the arguement he was acting outside of the subdivision's ordinances, measures, enactments, rules, policies, and exercises of proprietary authority.

And if they did that and offered a formal apology for their deputy's actions that would be fine I'm sure but that is the exact opposite of the 'circle the wagons' actions most departments take. When they defend his actions they are throwing their hat in the rink right there with him.

 

[Destro]

IC 3-5-2-38
If you can find some evidence to back up your claim I would be happy to look into it.

What is my claim?

 

[ThrottleJockey]

There is no actual rule to enforce. Since the officer is an employeee of an actual subdivision I don't see how that makes him the actual subdivision.


What really is the issue is following a police order.

WTF? You meant for that to be PURPLE, right?

 

[Destro]

There is no actual rule to enforce. Since the officer is an employeee of an actual subdivision I don't see how that makes him the actual subdivision.


What really is the issue is following a police order.

IC 3-5-2-38
"Political subdivision"
Sec. 38. "Political subdivision" means a county, city, town, township, school corporation, public library, local housing authority, fire protection district, public transportation corporation, local building authority, local hospital authority or corporation, local airport authority, special service district, special taxing district, or other type of local governmental corporate entity.
As added by P.L.5-1986, SEC.1.

I don't see LEO's listed

 

[Hotdoger]

IC 3-5-2-38
"Political subdivision"
Sec. 38. "Political subdivision" means a county, city, town, township, school corporation, public library, local housing authority, fire protection district, public transportation corporation, local building authority, local hospital authority or corporation, local airport authority, special service district, special taxing district, or other type of local governmental corporate entity.
As added by P.L.5-1986, SEC.1.

I don't see LEO's listed

IC 35-47-11.1-3
Voidance of political subdivision ordinances, measures, enactments, rules, policies, and exercises of proprietary authority
**** Sec. 3. Any provision of an ordinance, measure, enactment, rule, or policy or exercise of proprietary authority of a political subdivision or of an employee or agent of a political subdivision acting in an official capacity:

 

[ThrottleJockey]

IC 3-5-2-38
"Political subdivision"
Sec. 38. "Political subdivision" means a county, city, town, township, school corporation, public library, local housing authority, fire protection district, public transportation corporation, local building authority, local hospital authority or corporation, local airport authority, special service district, special taxing district, or other type of local governmental corporate entity.
As added by P.L.5-1986, SEC.1.

I don't see LEO's listed

Which of those funds the LEOs payroll? I would say that makes an LEO an agent of that entity and as such, also a representative thereof. This is why I didn't say to file a suit but keep that potential future action in mind if satisfaction is not reached through the complaint process.

 

[possum_128]

What is your problem with me?

He has a problem with anything anyone posts, it's not just you.

 

[Destro]

I didn't say to file a suit but keep that potential future action in mind if satisfaction is not reached through the complaint process.

Umm....

They are union, the only way you will get satisfaction is through a civil suit in front of a judge. They spend more effort gaming the system than doing their jobs....at least that's how it was when I was a monroe county sheriffs explorer..

 

[Destro]

He has a problem with anything anyone posts, it's not just you.

I approve of this post

 

[Bondhead88]

What if he started frisking every person on the street, and searched their cars, for no reason, except that someone is a criminal, and he minds to find that person?

Then you would be living in NY City!

 

[femurphy77]

My wife and I followed up on our complaint that we had filed and we were ask to come in file another complaint. There reason was, that we never heard from the officer that we filed on. That officer was to call us and go over our case but that officer never would return our call. The lead supervisor I spoke with told me later at a gas station on how the dept. Works. So all I am saying is don't get your hope up. I think everyone is looking for answer to this promblem and we will prodally never see the out come. That is just my two cents.

Oh so that's how it works; "sorry sir, the officer involved doesn't have time right now so we're just going to sweep this under the rug. Would you like to file a complaint with housekeeping?"

Sounds like a good ole boy network to me.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThrottleJockey
I didn't say to file a suit but keep that potential future action in mind if satisfaction is not reached through the complaint process.

Umm....

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThrottleJockey
They are union, the only way you will get satisfaction is through a civil suit in front of a judge. They spend more effort gaming the system than doing their jobs....at least that's how it was when I was a monroe county sheriffs explorer..

Correct, saying that the only way you'll see satisfaction is through suit and saying to file said suit are two different things. I'm glad you noticed that because it is exactly what I said and exactly what I meant. And yes, I realize the vast differences between being a scout and being a LEO but I also realize it allowed me to work very closely with the LEOs and thus get a pretty good feel as to their mindset. I remember a lot of weekends I would work the control room at the then "new" jail if that gives you any idea how long ago this was!

 

[jon5212]

file a lawsuit because your feelings got hurt? what a big man

Rights were violated here in case you missed that. Our current system that seems to be the only way to get these morons to listen to the people.

I know we've got a lot of keyboard commandos around including yourself but fact is fact.

And to OP this post by Destro was directed at me.

 

[EvilBlackGun]

I really dislike quoting such long quotes, but ...

... yours is replete with so many cites and I.C. items that it could be the basis for another wallet tri-fold for instances such as this. THANK YOU, sir for your excellent job! Another question: any LEO can ask us for all sorts of information on our citizen status. So, do LEOs have I.D. cards we can ask for in order to prove that the LEO is really an LEO? What are the State / County names / numbers for tis proof? Thanks. EBG

IC 3-5-2-38
"Political subdivision"
**** Sec. 38. "Political subdivision" means a county, city, town, township, school corporation, public library, local housing authority, fire protection district, public transportation corporation, local building authority, local hospital authority or corporation, local airport authority, special service district, special taxing district, or other type of local governmental corporate entity



**** ****

Information Maintained by the Office of Code Revision Indiana Legislative Services Agency

IC 35-47-11.1
**** Chapter 11.1. Local Regulation of Firearms, Ammunition, and Firearm Accessories


IC 35-47-11.1-1
Application
**** Sec. 1. This chapter applies to a political subdivision (as defined in IC*3-5-2-38).
As added by P.L.152-2011, SEC.4.

IC 35-47-11.1-2
Political subdivision regulation of firearms, ammunition, and firearm accessories prohibited
**** Sec. 2. Except as provided in section 4 of this chapter, a political subdivision may not regulate:
********(1) firearms, ammunition, and firearm accessories;
********(2) the ownership, possession, carrying, transportation, registration, transfer, and storage of firearms, ammunition, and firearm accessories; and
********(3) commerce in and taxation of firearms, firearm ammunition, and firearm accessories.
As added by P.L.152-2011, SEC.4.

IC 35-47-11.1-3
Voidance of political subdivision ordinances, measures, enactments, rules, policies, and exercises of proprietary authority
**** Sec. 3. Any provision of an ordinance, measure, enactment, rule, or policy or exercise of proprietary authority of a political subdivision or of an employee or agent of a political subdivision acting in an official capacity:
********(1) enacted or undertaken before, on, or after June 30, 2011; and
********(2) that pertains to or affects the matters listed in section 2 of this chapter;
is void.

SB292 also preempted political subdivisions from enforcing policies about firearms. There doesn't have to be a law or ordinance contrary to state law just an agent of a political subdivision enforcing his opinion rather than law. The deputy is an agent of the county and being a 'deputized' agent of the county he is the county's representative and his actions reflect on it. If you can find some evidence to back up your claim I would be happy to look into it.

I am not saying this issue deserves a lawsuit, far from it IMO but his department needs to realize the deep they just stepped in and correct it ASAP.



Something like that, lol.

 

[EvilBlackGun]

Is this ...

... a quote from Bisard??

What is your problem with me?