Mixing alcohol and gunpowder (thread split)

[ihateiraq]

i leave the gun in the car and drink my beer out of bottles. still a handy sd weapon, and less likely to land you in the poke.

 

[Prometheus]

The hard line no guns and no booze at the same time, even if it's one sip smacks of the dolts who still bash open carry. It's asinine.

Intelligent people, let alone those who understand responsibility, should be able to distinguish the difference between a social drink and intoxication.

I do not usually drink while I open carry in public. The aside to that was on Cinco De mayo at Abuellos where I did have a margarita with my dinner.

To say that a sip of a alcoholic beverage somehow negates your ability to be allowed to defend yourself is elitist, at best.

A lot of people talk about "a prosecutor would...." in regards to having had a before before defending yourself... WTF is that about? Honestly, what sort of fantasy world do we live in where the very remote chance of actually having to fire your weapon, after having a beer and then the remote chance of a DA trying to rail road you on top of that? Talk about a real tin-foil-hatter.

Bottom line is, if you can't handle your alcohol you probably shouldn't be drinking to begin with. If you can snap and shoot someone w/o justification, you can just as easily snap and stab them or bash them with a bottle or bar stool.

You should also know your limits and just like you shouldn't drive intoxicated, you shouldn't be that intoxicated in public armed or unarmed.

Personal responsibility. It's nice to see that being advocated in some of the above posts. Learn it, love it, live it.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Bill, This ^. Just because I happen to be at a bar doesn't mean I shouldn't have the means to protect my drunken friends/self. I hardly ever go to bars but when I do, I never drink more than a couple beers or shots. If I do, I leave it at home or in the car.

I understand the risk in getting into a SD shooting intoxicated, but I also adhere to the strict policy of not ever drawing unless my life or someone else's life is CLEARLY threatened. A beat down is not one of those times. OTOH, if I'm at a bar, it's one of the very few times I'm carrying concealed and being more polite than I normally would.

Not that I"m not always polite, but I become overly polite because I know how drunks can be.

Sorry, until I got ATM's message, I'd forgotten to check back on this. Ryan, I wasn't talking about getting into a SD shooting intoxicated per se, I was talking about the (God willing) avoidable situation of having to shoot in any case, including SD, with any detectable alcohol at all in your system, including so much as a single drink, 45 minutes earlier. I'm talking about a prosecutor who would charge you and try you for whatever he could.

This is not and has never been about not protecting yourself. I don't think there's ever a time you should not be able to do that. I think that if you're carrying, however, IN MY OPINION you should not be drinking. At all. No exceptions. Note that just because I think something is unwise does not mean I would try to make policy or law for anyone else.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Bill of Rights]

The hard line no guns and no booze at the same time, even if it's one sip smacks of the dolts who still bash open carry. It's asinine.

Intelligent people, let alone those who understand responsibility, should be able to distinguish the difference between a social drink and intoxication.

I do not usually drink while I open carry in public. The aside to that was on Cinco De mayo at Abuellos where I did have a margarita with my dinner.

To say that a sip of a alcoholic beverage somehow negates your ability to be allowed to defend yourself is elitist, at best.

A lot of people talk about "a prosecutor would...." in regards to having had a before before defending yourself... WTF is that about? Honestly, what sort of fantasy world do we live in where the very remote chance of actually having to fire your weapon, after having a beer and then the remote chance of a DA trying to rail road you on top of that? Talk about a real tin-foil-hatter.

Bottom line is, if you can't handle your alcohol you probably shouldn't be drinking to begin with. If you can snap and shoot someone w/o justification, you can just as easily snap and stab them or bash them with a bottle or bar stool.

You should also know your limits and just like you shouldn't drive intoxicated, you shouldn't be that intoxicated in public armed or unarmed.

Personal responsibility. It's nice to see that being advocated in some of the above posts. Learn it, love it, live it.

Nice job on making this about the issues and not the people, Prometheus. Well done.

In response, I'll say that my above post is my belief and practice. As for the part about the prosecutor, I could be mistaken, but I believe this has happened already. I'm not sure of this, so don't quote me.

I do as you suggested; I set my limits- in this case, I choose to abstain- but if you (or anyone) chooses not to, that is your choice. I understand that you set your limits differently than I set mine, and that's OK. My concern is only the legal ramifications in the event that someone had to shoot.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Litlratt]

Besides empty beer bottles make good targets and emptying then makes them more challengeing to hit.

Reminds me of the guys in the parking lot of a local bar.
One guy puts an empty can on his head and tells his buddy to shoot it(the can). His buddy missed and killed him.

I thought that it was best for me to quit drinking approximately 20 years ago when I started shooting. An occasional margarita at dinner is it for me.

 

[SavageEagle]

If you drink while carrying...it's a disaster in the making. You're playing with something that could turn and bite you in the rump.

Actually, you could just as easily say that anytime you're carrying and have to shoot it could bite you in the rump. It's the same as saying Not wearing a seat belt while driving makes driving more dangerous. Whether you wear a seatbelt or not, driving down the road could end in disaster as well.

I'm sorry, just because I've had a beer in me doesn't negate my responsiblity to the protection of myself or those around me. Just because I consume one or two beers or shots doesn't mean I lose my rights. Not saying this is what you guys are saying, but it's what it boils down to. You're all basiclly saying that because you're drinking you'll trust your life to someone else or no one at all. I don't buy into that and I don't trust my life to anyone but myself. Ok, scratch that. I trust my life to only two people in this world and neither one is usually with me at anytime. Except God.

I refuse to disarm if I'm not drinking so much I get drunk. If I get into a SD shooting, it'll be as close to cut and dry as possible, regardless if I'm drinking or not.

Then why do you drink?

Why do I drink? Because smoking pot is illegal and I have a family to think about now.

 

[kingnereli]

I was going to contribute to this thread, but you said what needed said here.

The hard line no guns and no booze at the same time, even if it's one sip smacks of the dolts who still bash open carry. It's asinine.

Intelligent people, let alone those who understand responsibility, should be able to distinguish the difference between a social drink and intoxication.

I do not usually drink while I open carry in public. The aside to that was on Cinco De mayo at Abuellos where I did have a margarita with my dinner.

To say that a sip of a alcoholic beverage somehow negates your ability to be allowed to defend yourself is elitist, at best.

A lot of people talk about "a prosecutor would...." in regards to having had a before before defending yourself... WTF is that about? Honestly, what sort of fantasy world do we live in where the very remote chance of actually having to fire your weapon, after having a beer and then the remote chance of a DA trying to rail road you on top of that? Talk about a real tin-foil-hatter.

Bottom line is, if you can't handle your alcohol you probably shouldn't be drinking to begin with. If you can snap and shoot someone w/o justification, you can just as easily snap and stab them or bash them with a bottle or bar stool.

You should also know your limits and just like you shouldn't drive intoxicated, you shouldn't be that intoxicated in public armed or unarmed.

Personal responsibility. It's nice to see that being advocated in some of the above posts. Learn it, love it, live it.

 

[esrice]

It's the same as saying Not wearing a seat belt while driving makes driving more dangerous.

Actually, I think its crashing without a seat belt that is more dangerous.

I'm sorry, just because I've had a beer in me doesn't negate my responsiblity to the protection of myself or those around me.

No, having alcohol in your system does not negate your responsibilities, it just makes it tougher to carry out those responsibilities as effectively.

You're all basiclly saying that because you're drinking you'll trust your life to someone else or no one at all.

I could be putting words into BoR's posts, but I believe he is saying that if you will not drink and carry at the same time, then the more prudent choice would be to not drink.

Why do I drink? Because smoking pot is illegal and I have a family to think about now.

for an honest answer!

 

[ihateiraq]

pot is much less dangerous though. but it stays in your system a long time, whereas cocaine is out in 3-5 days. *sniffle*

 

[Kirk Freeman]

The problem on these threads is what constitutes "drinking".

Having a beer or glass of wine with dinner is far different than going out to Broad Ripple, or wherever, with the intentional objective of getting hammered.

Age also is a enormous factor. At my age, having a beer with dinner is plenty of drinking for me.

While I cannot drink because of the steroids the doc is shooting in my ear, I had no problem with a glass of wine or beer at dinner. If I am going out with friends and we want to *ahem* "have a good time", then I'll leave my guns at home.

Think of it this way: drinking alcohol is another legal risk factor, if you want to avoid it, you can.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Actually, I think its crashing without a seat belt that is more dangerous.



No, having alcohol in your system does not negate your responsibilities, it just makes it tougher to carry out those responsibilities as effectively.

You're all basiclly saying that because you're drinking you'll trust your life to someone else or no one at all.

I could be putting words into BoR's posts, but I believe he is saying that if you will not drink and carry at the same time, then the more prudent choice would be to not drink.




for an honest answer!

All excellent points, Evan, and yes, you've restated my point exactly. I think it is better to choose either to be armed or to drink, not both, and given the choice, it is better to rely on yourself for your own defense.

YMMV.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[SavageEagle]

Actually, I think its crashing without a seat belt that is more dangerous.



No, having alcohol in your system does not negate your responsibilities, it just makes it tougher to carry out those responsibilities as effectively.



I could be putting words into BoR's posts, but I believe he is saying that if you will not drink and carry at the same time, then the more prudent choice would be to not drink.




for an honest answer!

Ok, of course CRASHING is more dangerous without a seat belt, but only in some cases, not others. Some cases, you're dead no matter what.

Also, too much adreniline pumping can be worse than being slightly buzzed. You're more willing to accidentally pull the trigger with your heart racing a mile a second than if your trigger finger and shooting eye aren't cooperating...

pot is much less dangerous though. but it stays in your system a long time, whereas cocaine is out in 3-5 days. *sniffle*

Cocaine is bad. It's actually addicting and can drive you to do far worse things to get it vs pot. Just because pot stays in your system, doesn't mean the effects are the same the whole time. After a couple hours the effects fade and by the next day the effects are no longer there. I could go on all night about how pot is so much better than beer, but that would be a hella threadjack and I think we've already got a couple threads closed on this subject!

All excellent points, Evan, and yes, you've restated my point exactly. I think it is better to choose either to be armed or to drink, not both, and given the choice, it is better to rely on yourself for your own defense.

YMMV.

Blessings,
Bill

Bill, I respect your opinion, as well as everyone else's. But I refuse to disarm just because I had a beer. Chances are far more in favor that I'll never need it, but even if I really did need to use it, would it really matter if I had a beer in me or not? Most likely not. I can think of a bunch of things that could go wrong, sure. But the chances of those scenarios happening while having a drink and needing to shoot are pretty slim.

As was said, it's all about knowing your limit and what you are capable of at each level. If you don't feel comfortable carrying when you have a drink, don't do so. If you know your limit and abide by it and feel you are ok to carry, thats your choice also.



I'd say we're pretty opinionated here and nothing any of us say is going to change the other's opinion.

I know if I plan on having more than a couple drinks I'm not going to carry. If not, it's stayin on my side.

One last thing... I think it's that if you're NOT drinking that you still can't carry in a bar.

 

[ihateiraq]

Cocaine is bad. It's actually addicting and can drive you to do far worse things to get it vs pot. Just because pot stays in your system, doesn't mean the effects are the same the whole time. After a couple hours the effects fade and by the next day the effects are no longer there. I could go on all night about how pot is so much better than beer, but that would be a hella threadjack and I think we've already got a couple threads closed on this subject!

oh, youll get no anti pot arguments out of me. ill take some dro over booze any day. i would have a few years ago at least. im not worried about effects though, short or long term. im worried about "heres your cup sergeant, fill it to the line please". well, would be worried.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Bill, I respect your opinion, as well as everyone else's. But I refuse to disarm just because I had a beer. Chances are far more in favor that I'll never need it, but even if I really did need to use it, would it really matter if I had a beer in me or not? Most likely not. I can think of a bunch of things that could go wrong, sure. But the chances of those scenarios happening while having a drink and needing to shoot are pretty slim.

As was said, it's all about knowing your limit and what you are capable of at each level. If you don't feel comfortable carrying when you have a drink, don't do so. If you know your limit and abide by it and feel you are ok to carry, thats your choice also.



I'd say we're pretty opinionated here and nothing any of us say is going to change the other's opinion.

I know if I plan on having more than a couple drinks I'm not going to carry. If not, it's stayin on my side.

One last thing... I think it's that if you're NOT drinking that you still can't carry in a bar.

That's fine, Ryan.. if you read back, you'll see that I never said you should disarm. I also never said you should not drink.

You said that you usually drink at home when you drink at all, and that's far closer to what I said. I am of the opinion that you should carry, but given that you're doing so, don't drink. Maybe that means your wife stays armed while you drink. Maybe it means you go to a friend's house and they "cover" you for that time. How you do it is up to you. For that matter whether you do it is up to you. This is just my thinking on the matter.

God willing, you won't ever have to do a SD shooting at all, let alone with alcohol in your system.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[public servant]

Why do I drink?

 

[public servant]

Personal responsibility. It's nice to see that being advocated in some of the above posts. Learn it, love it, live it.

You're correct...personal responsibility. Be responsible. Pick up a glass...put down the gun.

 

[Beau]

One last thing... I think it's that if you're NOT drinking that you still can't carry in a bar.

??? I was not aware of any such law in IN. I've carried in bars quite a few times.

 

[esrice]

??? I was not aware of any such law in IN. I've carried in bars quite a few times.

Same here. Maybe he was thinking of Texas?

 

[jjohnisme]

In my opinion, it should be just like drunk driving.

Over the limit, under arrest. Operating a vehicle and a firearm are, indeed, two different events. But the level of concentration for either is... You've heard all the rants before.

Guns and booze don't mix, but booze doesn't go well with much for that matter. If given the choice, i'd stick to one or two beers/hour, and just take it easy. Only found out recently that you can carry into bars in IN, unless otherwise posted.

 

[SavageEagle]

That's fine, Ryan.. if you read back, you'll see that I never said you should disarm. I also never said you should not drink.

You said that you usually drink at home when you drink at all, and that's far closer to what I said. I am of the opinion that you should carry, but given that you're doing so, don't drink. Maybe that means your wife stays armed while you drink. Maybe it means you go to a friend's house and they "cover" you for that time. How you do it is up to you. For that matter whether you do it is up to you. This is just my thinking on the matter.

God willing, you won't ever have to do a SD shooting at all, let alone with alcohol in your system.

Blessings,
Bill

LoL I was never arguing with you Bill. Don't take it personally. And you are right, God Forbid I should EVER have to use my pistol on anything other than practice targets or food. (For the record, I wouldn't eat people ) But as I've said before, when I do drink, it's never more than a couple beers, especially in public. I don't drink to get drunk. Unless I'm at home and had a REALLY bad day. You know, one of those days you wish you could sleep away, but can't sleep...

I do understand your point though. Don't get me wrong....

??? I was not aware of any such law in IN. I've carried in bars quite a few times.

Same here. Maybe he was thinking of Texas?

I wasn't refering to any law. I was refering to the fact that if you walk into any bar and they see or know you are carrying, regardless whether or not you drink, 99% will make you put it up or leave period. I am glad it's not a law. It'd be another useless law on the books.

In my opinion, it should be just like drunk driving.

Over the limit, under arrest. Operating a vehicle and a firearm are, indeed, two different events. But the level of concentration for either is... You've heard all the rants before.

Guns and booze don't mix, but booze doesn't go well with much for that matter. If given the choice, i'd stick to one or two beers/hour, and just take it easy. Only found out recently that you can carry into bars in IN, unless otherwise posted.

No, booze and guns don't mix. Nor does anything else but ugly chicks. That being said, according to your post above, are you saying you support a law like that? Seriously? What about talking on the phone while carrying? Or maybe no Carrying in your car with little children around? Child proof locks at all times? Micro stamping?

With all the laws on the books, and all the laws me and so many others are working VERY hard to reverse or rewrite in a sensible fashion, why would you advocate MORE laws? Especially one as asinine as that?

BTW, even if it's posted you can still carry into that bar. Just don't let them see it. It's not illegal, just against policy. If they ask you to leave because of it and you refuse, it's simply criminal tresspass and THEN they can take you to jail. Nothing more.