Missouri man tries to stick up four -tour Iraq Vet

[cosermann]

I guess sometimes you CAN draw on a drawn gun (or at least a half-hearted, partially drawn one anyway).

The slow reaction time of that perp makes me think he was on something. I mean it's almost 2 FULL SECONDS after he gets a gun in the face that he reacts and backs away.

BTW, if he had not had a round in the chamber (which he did) and he would have needed to fire, how would he have? Often, you just don't have the luxury of time to chamber a round.

JFYI, the video footage is on YouTube as well (here are just a few):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knIyqbxYkfI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl2KI6jC7DI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1id6FRVmicA

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

He looks to be OCing, so I'm guessing he's good on that score.

Good thing, too. He wouldn't have been able to make that move if his gun was covered.

 

[BravoMike]

Good thing, too. He wouldn't have been able to make that move if his gun was covered.

I disagree. I practice drawing one handed from concealment (with a blue gun of course) and if you watch the vid, he goes to the gun in a calm yet decisive manner. Only after he has a good purchase on his weapon does he make a "quick draw" and stick the gun in the BG's face. I would think that if a shirt where covering his firearm he could have gotten to it just as quickly.

 

[9mmfan]

Good thing, too. He wouldn't have been able to make that move if his gun was covered.

You're just baiting people know, aren't yeah?

 

[CathyInBlue]

Listening to Cam & Co. on NRA News this afternoon revealed a problem with this story. The problem is he's the only one the owner allows to pack heat. He's a vet who carries habitually, which is why the owner permitted him to carry on the job, but what about the non-vet who carries habitually? Apparently, to the owner, those non-vet gun-owners just don't have the same rights to defend themselves on the job as this one guy does.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Listening to Cam & Co. on NRA News this afternoon revealed a problem with this story. The problem is he's the only one the owner allows to pack heat. He's a vet who carries habitually, which is why the owner permitted him to carry on the job, but what about the non-vet who carries habitually? Apparently, to the owner, those non-vet gun-owners just don't have the same rights to defend themselves on the job as this one guy does.

Highly doubt we'll hear that side of the story.

 

[mk2ja]

He looks to be OCing, so I'm guessing he's good on that score.

Poor surveillance camera placement, btw. Should be lower.

Also, good example of why, when you need a gun, it's best if it's immediately accessible on your person.

Good thing, too. He wouldn't have been able to make that move if his gun was covered.

Was about to comment on that, as well. Yes, that clerk was absolutely aided by the fact that his sidearm was carried openly. Since he was using his left hand to prevent the assailant from pointing the muzzle in his direction, he would not have been able to draw his sidearm from a concealed carry location.

While the decision to OC or CC should always be a personal one, dictated by the situation instead of the law, events such as this reinforce my preference for OC.

Though who knows, maybe the BG actually DID target the clerk first because he saw that he was OC'ing!

I guess sometimes you CAN draw on a drawn gun (or at least a half-hearted, partially drawn one anyway).

The slow reaction time of that perp makes me think he was on something. I mean it's almost 2 FULL SECONDS after he gets a gun in the face that he reacts and backs away.

BTW, if he had not had a round in the chamber (which he did) and he would have needed to fire, how would he have? Often, you just don't have the luxury of time to chamber a round.

JFYI, the video footage is on YouTube as well (here are just a few):
[FULL] Armed Robbery Foiled As War Vet Draws Own Gun - YouTube
[RAW] Man Tries To Stick Up Iraq War Veteran Store Clerk - YouTube
[FULL] Armed Robber Vs Iraq Vet With 4 Tours Of Duty - YouTube

My thought was not that the assailant was high, though he may have been, but rather that he had only intended to draw the weapon, to brandish it, and so intimidate the clerk into compliance. But, noticing the delayed reaction (which could also have just been a moment of, "Oops! I better move slowly!"), the fact that he was smoking when he walked in, and that his draw was slow… well, I just can't say if he was high or not. Could go either way, in my opinion.

 

[BravoMike]

Since he was using his left hand to prevent the assailant from pointing the muzzle in his direction, he would not have been able to draw his sidearm from a concealed carry location.

I'm not pro-CC or pro-OC..... I'm pro-JFC. I am curious why you don't think he would be able to draw his firearm if he had it concealed? He would have absolutely been able to and could have done so just as fast. I don't understand the relevance of wether he was OCing or CCing in this particular case, in fact

 

[ArcadiaGP]

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Since he was using his left hand to prevent the assailant from pointing the muzzle in his direction, he would not have been able to draw his sidearm from a concealed carry location.

You are thinking of the magician's drawstroke? The Marine Corps is teaching this now? How do you know about this, young man. You are not old and gray like some of us here.

BTW, Bravo is correct. You can draw from concealment with one hand.

 

[ViperJock]

You are thinking of the magician's drawstroke? The Marine Corps is teaching this now? How do you know about this, young man. You are not old and gray like some of us here.

BTW, Bravo is correct. You can draw from concealment with one hand.

Its playing on Fox this morning.

Learning to draw from cover with one hand is something those "useless games" like IDPA teach you to do quickly and efficiently.

In fact most regular IDPAers could probably have drawn from cover faster than the clerk drew from OC.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

I never said he couldn't draw from concealment with one hand. Just as fast as he did there from OC? I think not.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Poor surveillance camera placement, btw. Should be lower.

That camera is angled to keep an eye on the cash drawer. That way when you play the old "Hey! I gave you a $20" trick, they have evidence that you really did give them a $10.

 

[KW730]

I was going to post this yesterday, glad to see someone else did. The vet showed amazing self-restraint, I can't say I would have necessarily done the same.

 

[AngryRooster]

I guess sometimes you CAN draw on a drawn gun (or at least a half-hearted, partially drawn one anyway).

The slow reaction time of that perp makes me think he was on something. I mean it's almost 2 FULL SECONDS after he gets a gun in the face that he reacts and backs away.

BTW, if he had not had a round in the chamber (which he did) and he would have needed to fire, how would he have? Often, you just don't have the luxury of time to chamber a round.

JFYI, the video footage is on YouTube as well (here are just a few):
[FULL] Armed Robbery Foiled As War Vet Draws Own Gun - YouTube
[RAW] Man Tries To Stick Up Iraq War Veteran Store Clerk - YouTube
[FULL] Armed Robber Vs Iraq Vet With 4 Tours Of Duty - YouTube

But...but...how can this be? The Israelis carry open chamber, it can be done. The little known fact is that Israelis have a third arm they keep concealed under their shirt for when they need one hand to draw, the second to chamber and the third to keep the attacker busy. Bet ya all didn't know that, know why? Because they keep that third arm concealed.

 

[mk2ja]

I'm not pro-CC or pro-OC..... I'm pro-JFC. I am curious why you don't think he would be able to draw his firearm if he had it concealed? He would have absolutely been able to and could have done so just as fast. I don't understand the relevance of wether he was OCing or CCing in this particular case, in fact

You are thinking of the magician's drawstroke? The Marine Corps is teaching this now? How do you know about this, young man. You are not old and gray like some of us here.

BTW, Bravo is correct. You can draw from concealment with one hand.

Its playing on Fox this morning.

Learning to draw from cover with one hand is something those "useless games" like IDPA teach you to do quickly and efficiently.

In fact most regular IDPAers could probably have drawn from cover faster than the clerk drew from OC.

OK, well, then apparently that's just something I've never been trained to do. My training when drawing from a concealed location has been to utilize this approach, as demonstrated by CR Williams from the USCCA (video link below).
http://uscca-downloads.s3.amazonaws.com/video-tips/Elbow Up Elbow Down 1.mp4

At the 6:27 mark, he does begin to discuss one-handed draw considerations, but it is difficult for me to see from that how it would still be preferable to open carry in that situation. While one could argue that he could execute the draw from under a cover more quickly than the clerk did, but one would also have to admit that one could still draw from OC even faster than he could draw from under a cover by the fact that it takes time to uncover first, however quickly practice allows it to be, and that time is skipped when drawing from OC.

I never said he couldn't draw from concealment with one hand. Just as fast as he did there from OC? I think not.

I think they were more directing those remarks at me, but I'm with ya.

I was going to post this yesterday, glad to see someone else did. The vet showed amazing self-restraint, I can't say I would have necessarily done the same.

I was thinking the same thing when I first watched the video: very good restraint. But it just now occurred to me that he probably just didn't want to have to clean up the mess of brains all over! If the BG even had any brains, that is, which is questionable.

 

[BravoMike]

While one could argue that he could execute the draw from under a cover more quickly than the clerk did, but one would also have to admit that one could still draw from OC even faster than he could draw from under a cover by the fact that it takes time to uncover first, however quickly practice allows it to be, and that time is skipped when drawing from OC.

I am in agreement with you here. I was referring to this particular video of the clerk pulling his gun and not generalizing.