Mini Rant about Classifieds

[Drakkule]

This is the form i made up and use. It's not required by law, but i work at a shop, so my boss asked me to do it, and after the ATF showed up last week, they said that if there was ever a problem the form would make for a short visit.

I _______________________________________________ traded a _______________________________________________________
For a ______________________________________________________________________
To _________________________________________________________________________
I certify I am a resident of the state of Indiana; I also certify I can also own a firearm without restrictions.
I take full responsibility for the information on this form. _____________________________
DOB ___/___/______
On __ __/__ __/ 2011

Forgot to add, i usually make two copies to bring to the deal, so we will both have one.

 

[Sigasaurus]

Some members of INGO are the ATF.

The ATF is everywhere!!!

 

[geronimojoe85]

I look at it this way. If I check your DL I know you're a resident and I have a picture so I know that you are you. Checking your LTCH tells me that you can legally carry and more importantly own a handgun, it's safe to assume that you don't intend to commit a crime with a firearm, while it's not as good as the NICS it tells me that you're probably not a criminal. That being said if it's someone on the site that I've met before, that I know, it's all good.

I also take into consideration rep, post count, and join date. If you're a guy that joined last week with 50 posts, and a couple red badges (of course rep matters less now) I'm absolutely going to be extremely cautious and may want a bill of sale if the transaction happens at all.

 

[mister]

I would have no issue as long as I can get a copy for my records as well. THis way i can prove ownership of a item for insurance. Now showing a LTCH is a issue for me as I dont have mine yet.

I have the same issue. My LTCH expired a few months back, and I haven't had the chance to re-apply for it. I suppose I can be patient and wait a few weeks until I pick up my next hand gun, but I'd like to be able to jump on a good deal when I see it. However, I'm not one to try and get around a seller's requests. If they need/want to see a LTCH, then I will have to pass on the deal for now.

I have absolutely no problem with signing a bill of sale though. It helps both parties keep track of things, and if nothing else provides peace of mind to the seller.

 

[Jubba]

I didn't read the entire thread since the only thing I get mad about regarding the classifieds is the number of people complaining about them. If you don't like it, move on. I suppose the same could be said of me and this thread so bye.

 

[Sylvain]

I dont ask the buyer to sign a bill of sale when I sale a gun.
If the buyer really wants a bill of sale then I will make one and sign it, but I dont see the point of it (both for the buyer and saler).
It has no legal value and doesn't do much.

Also I dont ask for a DL or LTCH.Im not a police officer doing a traffic stop or a FFL dealer.
I dont see why you would need a LTCH to buy a gun.
You can legally bring the gun you bought from me back to your home without a LTCH.
You can legally sell a gun to someone who has no LTCH.
Also both can be easily faked anyway so I rather do the deal based on trust.

Unless I know that the buyer is under 18, a fellon or not a IN resident, then the deal is off.

 

[Sylvain]

I look at it this way. If I check your DL I know you're a resident and I have a picture so I know that you are you. Checking your LTCH tells me that you can legally carry and more importantly own a handgun, it's safe to assume that you don't intend to commit a crime with a firearm, while it's not as good as the NICS it tells me that you're probably not a criminal. That being said if it's someone on the site that I've met before, that I know, it's all good.

I also take into consideration rep, post count, and join date. If you're a guy that joined last week with 50 posts, and a couple red badges (of course rep matters less now) I'm absolutely going to be extremely cautious and may want a bill of sale if the transaction happens at all.

You dont need a LTCH to transport the gun you just bought to your home.
That's true for both handguns and long guns.
You just need to be over 18 to buy a handgun or long gun in a private sale, so what the LTCH has to do with that?

It doesnt matter (to you anyway) if I can carry or not.

 

[sgreen3]

If I really want the gun, an the seller wants it in order to close a deal. Ill sign one, but I wont give ne other info other than that

 

[geronimojoe85]

Double post

 

[geronimojoe85]

You dont need a LTCH to transport the gun you just bought to your home.
That's true for both handguns and long guns.
You just need to be over 18 to buy a handgun or long gun in a private sale, so what the LTCH has to do with that?

It doesnt matter (to you anyway) if I can carry or not.

It's called peace of mind.
That being said if I know the person weather personally or on INGO I'll happily lower my guard. If I'm making a deal with Que a handshake and cash is fine.

 

[dbd870]

I'm not signing a bill of sale for anyone who is not registered with the state of Indiana as a business. If I want the gun that badly and it's required by the seller, I will pay for the FFL transfer, but I'm not providing that level of detail for anyone I met on through the internet.

Documentation (title) is necessary for the transfer of a car in order to register the car with the state. That is not necessary for a gun, so why would someone want to take my name, address, and other information for their records?

I agree.

I can understand the DL, but don't understand why people want to see a LTCH.

For their peace of mind I suppose -I couldn't care less if they have a LTCH or not.

 

[ruger44srh]

So you don't think I would have any liability if you used a handgun registered in my name in a bank robbery and killed someone with it? And you don't think the police would ignore the fact that I said, "I sold it to some guy" when they asked where it was? And when they say, "Who'd you sell it to?" and I'd have to say, "IDK, I didn't get his name or any information." you actually believe I'm not going to see the inside of a jail cell?

I've only sold 1 firearm, but you'd better believe I had a bill of sale signed by the guy and myself saying that, "To my knowledge he is legal to own a firearm and after the purchase I am cleared of any legal action if a crime is made with the firearm."

I didn't take down SSN's, phone numbers, etc. All it is is me protecting my own @ss so that if he sells it to someone who sells it to someone who decides to go murder someone, I have a bill of sale which is physical evidence that I sold the firearm.

You don't have to " register " your guns in Indianapolis. I believe the only requirement for the " government " to be informed of a gun sale or purchase is thru an " FFL " dealer.

 

[cbseniour]

A bill of sale protects both the buyer and seller. The seller has record that he no longer owns the gun and the buyer that he obtained it legally and from whom. What is objectionable about that???

 

[roscott]

It's too dangerous! Someone could easily memorize your address when they see your driver's license, and use the bill of sale to frame you as an illegal weapons dealer, and they probably stashed drugs in the stock of the gun, so your a drug dealer as well. PURPLE

 

[Expat]

I don't provide proof of residency nor ask for it. I ask where they are from. If they say Indiana then case closed for me. I am selling to someone that appears to be a proper person. If the ad requires any of that stuff, I move on. I don't complain about it as that is my decision. I do not believe that the law requires more than that. I also fear that if we start voluntarily doing more than the law requires, then why shouldn't the law begin requiring it.

 

[ssgjason]

I don't provide proof of residency nor ask for it. I ask where they are from. If they say Indiana then case closed for me. I am selling to someone that appears to be a proper person. If the ad requires any of that stuff, I move on. I don't complain about it as that is my decision. I do not believe that the law requires more than that. I also fear that if we start voluntarily doing more than the law requires, then why shouldn't the law begin requiring it.

This is the right thing to do.
Too many people on here with too much time on their hands complaining about other's actions when they have no impact on them what-so-ever.
People complaining about; asking price, sales conditions etc...
Going so far as to negatively rep someone for their asking price.
Get a life

 

[Bersalover]

I view it as a way to cover your ASSets. If the gun came up stolen how would you know or explain where you received it from? Never hurts to be cautious

 

[marv]

I have been buying and selling guns for 60+ yrs. I got my FIRST voluntary BOS/invoice from a dealer 2 wks ago. At a gun show of all places. In a FTF sale I neither give nor get a BOS. I do verify that the other party is a Hoosier.

 

[Que]

I view it as a way to cover your ASSets. If the gun came up stolen how would you know or explain where you received it from? Never hurts to be cautious

I am cautious, that's why I only do personal sales on INGO. So, if that was to happen, I'm sure the authorities could find the individual through faster means than a bill of sale.

 

[lovemachine]

Every gun I've sold on here, I've required a Bill Of Sale. The buyer and seller both gets one. The info I put on there is the date, buyer and seller name, the agreed on cost, phone number and address. And signatures. And I do want to see a drivers license, AND a LTCH if it's a handgun.

Don't like it? Tough. Don't buy from me. I know it's not necessary. And it could be false info from the buyer. But I still do it for peace of mind.

I don't see what the big deal is. Both parties are getting an excellent deal. So grow up.