Militia Takes Over Wildlife Refuge In Oregon

[steveh_131]

An interesting piece on the backstory. Needs a whole lot of fact-checking, so take it with a grain of salt.Full Story About What?s Going on In Oregon ? ?Militia? Take Over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge In Protest to Hammond Family Persecution? | The Last Refuge

 

[steveh_131]

When you call the President a Kenyan you show your true colors in more way than one.

I could continue, but I don't know if it is within the board rules to point out blatant racism and a tendency towards the extreme right wing.

Sounded to me like a jab at his legitimacy as a president based on his citizenship. That is not equivalent to racism, by definition.

You're also tossing around this 'terrorist' term kind of loosely. How do you define 'terrorist'? Have these folks actually 'terrorized' anybody yet?

 

[tyrajam]

For those of you who don't see this as a land grab, why did the gov demand first right of refusal in the plea deal? As part of their sentence, if they ever sell their land they must sell it to the government. That has nothing to do with arson, poaching, or any of the other trumped up charges that the feds have been lobbing at the Hammonds for 4 decades. Even in the sentencing, all the feds focused on was getting that land by whatever means possible.

 

[dusty88]

For those of you who don't see this as a land grab, why did the gov demand first right of refusal in the plea deal? As part of their sentence, if they ever sell their land they must sell it to the government. That has nothing to do with arson, poaching, or any of the other trumped up charges that the feds have been lobbing at the Hammonds for 4 decades. Even in the sentencing, all the feds focused on was getting that land by whatever means possible.

So that's how it was done.... first right of refusal in a plea deal? Do you have a link that somewhat verifies that?

 

[steveh_131]

So that's how it was done.... first right of refusal in a plea deal? Do you have a link that somewhat verifies that?

National review reported it. Haven't found the actual legal documents.

Oregon Protests: Civil Disobedience Justified

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

So that's how it was done.... first right of refusal in a plea deal? Do you have a link that somewhat verifies that?

National review reported it. Haven't found the actual legal documents.

Oregon Protests: Civil Disobedience Justified

There's so much information flying back and forth on this. If you're on the "shoot them all, now!" Side, you get one angle. if you're on the they're all patriots, you get another. And if you're on the 'hey wait a minute...why are they being accused of being terrorists for burning some grass land and why are those yahoos acting like a bunch of Occupy folks' side, you get another. But yeah, I've read the first right of refusal thing in one of these sources.

 

[dusty88]

National review reported it. Haven't found the actual legal documents.

Oregon Protests: Civil Disobedience Justified

I also just found it in the Oregonian. Sometimes the local sources of these stories are much more thorough and not as prone to partisan bias.

Oregon ranchers' fight with feds sparks militias' interest | OregonLive.com


I just can't even wrap my head around how anyone could consider that ethical. In some ways, such a move could be said to violate the rights of other citizens and taxpayers.

 

[tyrajam]

So that's how it was done.... first right of refusal in a plea deal? Do you have a link that somewhat verifies that?

Here is a link from the Oregonian, the biggest newspaper in Oregon. They are as left wing as publication can get, but they reported on the first right of refusal. Militiamen, ranchers in showdown for soul of Burns | OregonLive.com

It's about power and money. Another often ignored aspect is that the Hammond ranch is sitting on top of MASSIVE reserves of natural gas, mercury and uranium. But I'm sure the feds would never abuse private property rights to fill their coffers. http://pubs.usgs.gov/bul/1740b/report.pdf

 

[dusty88]

Here is a link from the Oregonian, the biggest newspaper in Oregon. They are as left wing as publication can get, but they reported on the first right of refusal. Militiamen, ranchers in showdown for soul of Burns | OregonLive.com

It's about power and money. Another often ignored aspect is that the Hammond ranch is sitting on top of MASSIVE reserves of natural gas, mercury and uranium. But I'm sure the feds would never abuse private property rights to fill their coffers. http://pubs.usgs.gov/bul/1740b/report.pdf

There's so much information flying back and forth on this. If you're on the "shoot them all, now!" Side, you get one angle. if you're on the they're all patriots, you get another. And if you're on the 'hey wait a minute...why are they being accused of being terrorists for burning some grass land and why are those yahoos acting like a bunch of Occupy folks' side, you get another. But yeah, I've read the first right of refusal thing in one of these sources.

But what if it is Dick Cheney's friends that want the resources on the Hammond's land? That would make some heads spin when they don't know whose side to take!


I'm having a flashback to the RFRA arguments: defending something I don't even really agree with against a bunch of misinformation.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Well, Mormons....sure.

Before this line of thinking goes any further.... the Mormon Church has spoken up on this issue already:

Church Responds to Inquiries Regarding Oregon Armed Occupation

Bottom line - while there are Mormons of all political stripes, it is one of our articles of faith to work within the laws of the nations where we live to hammer out disputes.

So while some of the folks involved may well be Mormons (there's a fair amount of them in that part of the country...), this is decidedly NOT a Mormon battle.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Does anybody have a link to the president saying "this is a local matter?"

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

When you call the President a Kenyan you show your true colors in more way than one.

I could continue, but I don't know if it is within the board rules to point out blatant racism and a tendency towards the extreme right wing.

Lighten up, Francis... the only thing that calling Obama a _Kenyan_ "proves"... is that the person stating that does not buy into the notion that Obama was a native born American citizen.

There are many other things ID1776 could call him that would be truly racist, right wing, etc. But simply using the "Kenyan" reference would seem to me to be a disagreement with his _citizenship status_ , and not his _ethnicity_ per se ...

 

[dusty88]

Does anybody have a link to the president saying "this is a local matter?"

it was White House spokesman
White House calls Oregon standoff a 'local law enforcement matter' | TheHill

 

[KG1]

Lighten up, Francis... the only thing that calling Obama a _Kenyan_ "proves"... is that the person stating that does not buy into the notion that Obama was a native born American citizen.

There are many other things ID1776 could call him that would be truly racist, right wing, etc. But simply using the "Kenyan" reference would seem to me to be a disagreement with his _citizenship status_ , and not his _ethnicity_ per se ...

Yeah I'm sure he is aware of that but he just chooses to pop in and out from time to time and stir things up because he despises a majority of the membership here.

 

[Kutnupe14]

it was White House spokesman
White House calls Oregon standoff a 'local law enforcement matter' | TheHill

Oh, smoke and mirrors. That's the perception they want to put out. My guess is not to inspire other anti-Fed guys to show up.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Yeah i'm sure he is aware of that but he just choses to pop in and out from time to time and stir things up because he despises a majority of the membership here.

The tinnitus from all that gun fire just prohibits us from being able to hear the dog whistles.

 

[HoughMade]

Before this line of thinking goes any further.... the Mormon Church has spoken up on this issue already:

Church Responds to Inquiries Regarding Oregon Armed Occupation

Bottom line - while there are Mormons of all political stripes, it is one of our articles of faith to work within the laws of the nations where we live to hammer out disputes.

So while some of the folks involved may well be Mormons (there's a fair amount of them in that part of the country...), this is decidedly NOT a Mormon battle.

To be clear, I seldom purple.

 

[level.eleven]

Oh, smoke and mirrors. That's the perception they want to put out. My guess is not to inspire other anti-Fed guys to show up.

This is a real problem.

We let the Bundy's slip the first time they were breaking the law because they wanted a standoff. America let them off because we thought they would go away.

Now, we have another standoff. Let them slide again - more of the same, the terrorists win. Destroy the terrorism - inspire more terrorists. This is ISIS all over again.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Lighten up, Francis... the only thing that calling Obama a _Kenyan_ "proves"... is that the person stating that does not buy into the notion that Obama was a native born American citizen.

There are many other things ID1776 could call him that would be truly racist, right wing, etc. But simply using the "Kenyan" reference would seem to me to be a disagreement with his _citizenship status_ , and not his _ethnicity_ per se ...

I don't assume to know ID1176 motives for referring to the president as a Kenyan, but given then nations long history of viewing people of color as "not quite" American, and the incredible amount of spin one would have to buy into, to believe that, in the 60s, a white girl, with a black child, risks federal jail time, to smuggle her child into the United States (despite the child easily becoming naturalized) for the sole benefit of being able to attain the highest office in the land.... seems outlandish. I can easily see why when people see "the Kenyan," there a belief of racial bias attached.

 

[dusty88]

This is a real problem.

We let the Bundy's slip the first time they were breaking the law because they wanted a standoff. America let them off because we thought they would go away.

Now, we have another standoff. Let them slide again - more of the same, the terrorists win. Destroy the terrorism - inspire more terrorists. This is ISIS all over again.

These aren't the same groups. This is reportedly about 20 people, some of whom were at the Bundy ranch.

Most of the hundreds of peaceful protesters at the Bundy Ranch have disavowed the taking of this building as an aggressive action.