Midway rip-off

[Broom_jm]

I feel bad for hi-jacking another thread, so I decided to start another one. Maybe this is something you all knew, but I just found out something about the way Midway is doing business that makes me so mad I could spit nails!

They claim they can't store powder in their warehouse, so they basically drop-ship all their powder. If you order primers and powder(s) on the same order, they will charge you a separate hazmat fee for each box! If you were to order powder that did not all drop-ship from the same vendor, you might even pay THREE hazmat fees!

I wrote them the letter below and will NEVER do business with them again. I got a call back from them within 5 minutes, trying to explain it all away, but the nice lady only confirmed that they DO double-charge you for the hazmat fee, if you order primers and powders together. Are you folks as outraged as I am??

"To whom it may concern:

I have been a Midway customer for the last 20+ years. I've ordered thousands of dollars worth of reloading supplies from your company and always been very happy with your service...until today.

I just found out that you ship primers and powders from different warehouses, which means you charge two separate hazmat fees when ordering these components on one invoice. A very nice customer service person explained that your main warehouse is too close to a major freeway, so you cannot store powder there. I asked her the rather obvious question: Why don't you keep the primers in the other building with the powder, saving your loyal customers money on these (ridiculous) hazmat fees? She said she was sure that had been considered, but you were not doing it that way.

Please locate my account and delete it from your records. I do not want another email or a flyer sent to my home. I am even deleting your website from my Favorites, I'm so mad!

I'm also a fairly active member on two popular online forums (Shooters Forum and Indiana Gun Owners). I will be shouting this bit of information from the rooftops and knowing the red-blooded Americans on these websites, you can bet your last box of Partitions you lose a LOT of business over this.

A thoroughly-disgusted FORMER customer,

--
Jason Broom
Mooresville, IN"

 

[straight-shooter]

Wow, in the past i've always ordered from Powder Valley so i had no idea that Midwayusa was doing this. I have ordered thousands of dollars from Midway and have always been satisfied. I must admit that i will continue to order from them and just keep my powder and primer orders elsewhere.

Thanks for the heads up on this.

 

[Broom_jm]

Maybe I'm over-reacting to this, but I'm truly incensed! I think what really bothers me is that they could easily purchase or lease a warehouse just for storing powders and primers, but instead of doing the right thing by their customers, they will gladly gouge us on what already amounts to a "sin tax"! I'm sticking to my guns on this (pun intended) and will not order a **** thing from Midway until they stop ripping people off.

 

[45fan]

I refuse to pay the hazmat fee the first time, so I try to make do with what I can procure locally. Sometimes local ends up being an hours drive to Indy, but thats just an excuse to look at some of the gun shops that I dont stop by very often. Keeping an eye out at some other stores, like Big R, and in some places rural king can also save you from hazmat fees.

 

[shibumiseeker]

Maybe I'm over-reacting to this, but I'm truly incensed! I think what really bothers me is that they could easily purchase or lease a warehouse just for storing powders and primers, but instead of doing the right thing by their customers, they will gladly gouge us on what already amounts to a "sin tax"! I'm sticking to my guns on this (pun intended) and will not order a **** thing from Midway until they stop ripping people off.

Calm down Francis. You're overreacting more than just a bit.

While Midway loses out on a lot of powder and primer business because of their shipping primers and powder from separate facilities, there is a hazmat surcharge they pay to the common carrier so they're not just doing it to fleece people.

It is NOT easy to store powder and coming up with a new warehouse is not a trivial matter. Do a little research and see what it takes, it'll open your eyes. I've dealt with the issues involved in maintaining a magazine.

Generally speaking Midway doesn't have the best prices on powder and primers so the only time I order from them is when they have something I need that my usual sources don't. Other than that Midway is a pretty decent company in general and writing them off because you're up in arms on this issue is silly.

 

[IndyGunworks]

Here is one to make you even more mad. The dealer price on a box of 500 6mm reminton brass was MORE than the normal price.


Thats right. the price was 489 and when i logged in it dealer price: 526. almost 50 dollars MORE for the dealer.

 

[dave29]

That is why Grafs gets most of my business. I like their $5.95 flat rate shipping. The also have Hazmat fee deals every once in a while.

 

[Broom_jm]

Calm down Francis. You're overreacting more than just a bit.

While Midway loses out on a lot of powder and primer business because of their shipping primers and powder from separate facilities, there is a hazmat surcharge they pay to the common carrier so they're not just doing it to fleece people.

It is NOT easy to store powder and coming up with a new warehouse is not a trivial matter. Do a little research and see what it takes, it'll open your eyes. I've dealt with the issues involved in maintaining a magazine.

Generally speaking Midway doesn't have the best prices on powder and primers so the only time I order from them is when they have something I need that my usual sources don't. Other than that Midway is a pretty decent company in general and writing them off because you're up in arms on this issue is silly.

They are a "reloading" merchandiser...and you excuse them from the difficulties associated with storing powder? They do tens of millions, maybe hundreds of millions of dollars a year in business. If they cared about their customers, I'm pretty sure they could figure it out.

 

[shibumiseeker]

They are a "reloading" merchandiser...and you excuse them from the difficulties associated with storing powder? They do tens of millions, maybe hundreds of millions of dollars a year in business. If they cared about their customers, I'm pretty sure they could figure it out.

They are a shooters supplier and reloading supplies is just one small part of their business. Nor do they have a reputation for being the cheapest of anything they sell. What they do have a reputation for is having a very large selection of gun related stuff and relatively fast shipping. Quite frankly I can understand why it isn't a high priority to put in the money and effort into building a warehouse for powder: the markup on powder, primers, and bullets is among the lowest for any consumer item, and the only way to actually make any money on it is to be able to buy very large quantities and dealing with and storing large quantities of powder again is not a trivial operation and is unlike dealing with any other consumer item.

I'm not their apologist, I think they probably do lose out on some business because of it, and even if they did make it so they could co-ship they wouldn't make much if any money on it, and my bet is that powder and primers is a loss-leader for them as something they sell so they can be a complete source for shooters.

What I'm saying is that I think your outrage is way out of proportion. Do what the rest of us savvy reloaders do and buy from Pats or PV or other suppliers that are much cheaper in the first place. I don't even put in a hazmat order until I can max out the shipment weight and sometimes that means I go in with other folks. The last primer order I placed was for 90k primers. The last powder order I placed was for 48lbs. Hell, Aszerigan has VERY kindly offered for people to get in on his monthly hazmat orders with no shipping or hazmat charges and the prices are what one of the lowest sources charge as long as his source has that powder.

What's it to you that Midwayusa's business model for selling powder and primers together is inefficient and costs them customers? Why the outrage and hate? I see far more egregious issues at every 1500 I go to yet people still buy plenty from those vendors. In almost every dealing I've had with Midway they've done me fair which is better than I can say for most vendors I use for my business (not gun related).

 

[U.S. Patriot]

I order my reloading equipment and rifle bullets from them. As for my powder and primers, I buy from Atterbury, they have the best prices. Not for sure where you are located, but the Indiana Gun Club who runs Atterbury. Also runs a range near Indy. Might check it out.

 

[redneckmedic]

Why would anyone on INGO ever buy from an online retailer when you can get significantly better prices from the sponsers and group buys

 

[doctrpt]

Why would anyone on INGO ever buy from an online retailer when you can get significantly better prices from the sponsers and group buys

Because they haven't found out about that option, and are going off of what they can find here as they continue to explore...

 

[Dog1]

I have not ordered from Midway since they tried to charge me 3 times in shipping than what the part was worth.

 

[Bollorollo]

Why would anyone on INGO ever buy from an online retailer when you can get significantly better prices from the sponsers and group buys

Amen to that. You also have a lot of places around here to buy your powder and primers from and you don't have to worry about hazmat charges. Plus there is a person here who will have shipments come in and will post here for anyone who wants to buy before he orders. I never have had any problems with Midwest USA before, but when ever you order from online you will end up paying more because of shipping charges unless you have a large order. Anyone of your gun shops around can order what ever you need and have it ship to them at no extra charge to you. I do feel your frustration though and hope you will recieve some freebees from Midway USA.

 

[hammer24]

I buy some bullets and brass from them, as well as other misc. things, but I've always bought primers and powder locally. It's cheaper.

 

[HDSilvrStreak]

Why would anyone on INGO ever buy from an online retailer when you can get significantly better prices from the sponsers and group buys

I think some of us forget that INGO is really "Indiana Gun Owners" as opposed to "Indianapolis Gun Owners". Those of us in the Indy area are easily capable of participating in group buys at sponsors like Profire Arms or buying powder/primers cheaply at Indiana Gun Club on the NE side of town.

However, there are a lot of our members that live 2 or 3 hours drive from the Indy area and that drive makes it not practical to join in on some of our group buys or take advantage of our local retailers.

 

[Yeah]

Why would anyone on INGO ever buy from an online retailer when you can get significantly better prices from the sponsers and group buys

When and where?

I'm up for a restock on some things and anyone who can be PVI's prices with hazmat and shipping can get my business.

 

[sloughfoot]

Why is there not this level of outrage against the whole idea of haz-mat charges? We have been getting raped ever since the Federal DOT mandated these charges for no good reason 15 years ago.

 

[Broom_jm]

I admire anyone willing to play the devil's advocate, but you've got some facts out of order, including a couple of your own.

Midway started out loading ammunition in a garage. Reloading is/was the core of their business. There was a time when they had powder and primer in one facility and shipped both in one box.

The hazmat fee was never intended to be a revenue generation tool for a business. My wife fills out dozens of hazmat certs every week and they only charge their customers 1 fee, no matter how many boxes are shipped, so it is by no means necessary for Midway to do what they do.

At one time they DID have excellent pricing. They now have so much market share that they seem to feel like they can jack up their prices, including extraneous shipping charges. How can they be charging too much AND not have much markup on powders? How do other places charge less and remain profitable? Is Graf's taking a loss on every pound they sell? If powder is a "loss leader" for Midway, it must be crippling places like Midsouth, huh? Primers and powders are definitely NOT items with a low markup at most LGS's in the area, now are they?

You speak of economies of scale, but when it comes to selling "Just about everything" for reloading, please tell me who sells more gunpowder to the average reloader than Midway? Are you suggesting they do not have the market base to sell powder at a profit, by purchasing and reselling huge volumes? They've done so for DECADES...so what happened? What changed?

For the record: I haven't bought powder or primers from any online retailer since the hazmat fee hit $20, except when places offer to waive the fee if you order a certain amount of powder and/or primers. I haven't bought either from Midway for as long as I can remember, but that doesn't make a d*** bit of difference. What they're doing shows contempt for the customer base. If you don't see it that way, then your expectations as a customer must be pretty low.

Maybe my outrage is unwarranted...I'll grant you that. But, it's this kind of crap that is KILLING American business. Midway will also charge you ~$8 to ship a single $3 part. If you order 10 items that are all on back-order, they WILL NOT hold the order until all items are in stock and ship it all at once. If your 10 items come in one-at-a-time, that is how Midway will ship them...and they will charge you a different shipping fee each and every time. I specifically asked to have my order held until all items were in stock and they REFUSED.

You tell me how any of this is acceptable customer service and I'll shut the h*** up.

I just wanted to add that I have thought very highly of Midway for many years. I've ordered at least $10K worth of stuff from them, over the years. There was a time when my (ex) wife would scan our bank and credit card report every month, looking for Midway USA!

This is a fairly recent development and it frustrates me. There really WAS a time when companies would go out of their way to take care of their customers. It's quite clear to me that Midway is no longer one of those companies. I'll take my business elsewhere from now on. If it doesn't bother other folks, the way Midway is treating them, well I guess that shouldn't bother me, either.

 

[top hat 45]

Why would anyone on INGO ever buy from an online retailer when you can get significantly better prices from the sponsers and group buys

matt, i somewhat agree with your statement but with fuel/gas prices the way they are, thats not always the best option either. i placed an order with profire for a pound of powder, great price, no problems at all. went to pick it up, 30 minutes driving each way and as it ended up could have paid the hazmat fee to a mail order house cheaper than the refill of the gas tank.

that being said i dont pay hazmat fees to mail order houses unless i get about 3 other people to split an order for powder and/or primers with me. graf prices on that stuff is pretty good....daryll