Man pulls gun on cops outside of Applebee's

[KellyinAvon]

It was a BB gun. Here's a video from the other cop's perspective

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0V9AOsWQzpc

I'm not embedding until a mod weighs in. Technically, we're watching a guy die on YouTube.

Here's the article:

Video: Texas cops fatally shoot man who pulled replica

Cops very well-trained. Notice how he moves the cutlery while walking out, and watches the perp walk past. All happens very fast once outside.

If you're going to bring a BB gun to a gunfight, make it a Daisy Red Ryder. At least it looks like a BB gun which will increase your chances of only getting tasered/maced/curb-stomped/all of the above.

 

[patience0830]

Sure is cold in here today. Tough crowd.

Kinda sad. The gal needs to get her mind ready if this happens again. Like the other fella said, ain't sure I'd do better, but I've run this kind of scene through my head a thousand times and I hope I'd at least be aiming center mass. Glad the good guys went home.

 

[Woobie]

If you're going to bring a BB gun to a gunfight, make it a Daisy Red Ryder. At least it looks like a BB gun which will increase your chances of only getting tasered/maced/curb-stomped/all of the above.

Plus, you could at least shoot the cops eye out!

 

[2A_Tom]

Sad.

47 year old carrying a toy gun.

 

[T-DOGG]

First and foremost, I commend the officers involved for risking their lives and ending a threat with no harm to themselves or innocent bystanders. But man, that was intense to watch, definite eye opener to what the Police deal with. Just curious about protocol from a Police standpoint and I understand every situation is different, but should he have been frisked in the bathroom before moving him outside, or is the idea to get him outside away from the other customers in case something happens (which obviously did). I am by no means any sort of an expert and certainly don't pretend to be, just trying to understand the thought process. Would frisking him in the bathroom and thus discovering the BB gun have changed the outcome and possibly just have the suspect in jail instead of being dead? I realize there is no real answer to that hypothetical question, but I'm just thinking out loud. On a side note, the suspect had a very cold and awkward facial expression and appeared to me that he had a death wish.

 

[THE BIG SITT]

I was very surprised he wasn't in cuffs as he was being escorted. But daggum that was a quick reaction by the officers. Not to mention good shooting. He hit exactly where you're supposed to.

 

[Fargo]

First and foremost, I commend the officers involved for risking their lives and ending a threat with no harm to themselves or innocent bystanders. But man, that was intense to watch, definite eye opener to what the Police deal with. Just curious about protocol from a Police standpoint and I understand every situation is different, but should he have been frisked in the bathroom before moving him outside, or is the idea to get him outside away from the other customers in case something happens (which obviously did). I am by no means any sort of an expert and certainly don't pretend to be, just trying to understand the thought process. Would frisking him in the bathroom and thus discovering the BB gun have changed the outcome and possibly just have the suspect in jail instead of being dead? I realize there is no real answer to that hypothetical question, but I'm just thinking out loud. On a side note, the suspect had a very cold and awkward facial expression and appeared to me that he had a death wish.

Depending on what the cops knew going in, it may or may not have been legal to frisk him. Reasonable suspicion to detain does not automatically legalize a frisk. Shoplifting beer isn't exactly a crime of violence, it is usually a misdemeanor.

Pragmatically, I don't know that I'd want to try to frisk him in a confined bathroom. If things go south in a confined space, the odds of catching your partners rounds go way up.

The cop in the lead is a very cool customer.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Plus, you could at least shoot the cops eye out!

Or your own!

 

[Denny347]

Yes, I saw that. He checked six at the same moment as well. He also managed to have the wherewithal to push the BG away so as not to take any of his partner's inbound traffic. Overall they seemed to me to operate well as a team and resolve the situation. Maybe some of the INGO PD can lend their expertise and offer some criticism, but I thought they did a really fine job.

No criticism from me.

 

[THE BIG SITT]

Just watched it from the male officers camera. He deserves a raise. You can tell how much the man has trained. As soon as he realizes what need to happen, the training kicks in and he performs flawlessly. He even managed to turn on his flashlight. Very impressed with how quick he drew, got a good grip, and put shots on target.

 

[T-DOGG]

Depending on what the cops knew going in, it may or may not have been legal to frisk him. Reasonable suspicion to detain does not automatically legalize a frisk. Shoplifting beer isn't exactly a crime of violence, it is usually a misdemeanor.

Pragmatically, I don't know that I'd want to try to frisk him in a confined bathroom. If things go south in a confined space, the odds of catching your partners rounds go way up.

The cop in the lead is a very cool customer.

This was one of the things I considered were a factor in the lead officer's decision.

 

[Denny347]

Oh geez, now he's even dumber than I thought.

I counted 12 shots, I think. Comparing the two videos, it seems to me he gets a lot of his rounds center of mass. She put most of hers at the BG's feet. Not that Im saying I could do better.

Sure is cold in here today. Tough crowd.

Kinda sad. The gal needs to get her mind ready if this happens again. Like the other fella said, ain't sure I'd do better, but I've run this kind of scene through my head a thousand times and I hope I'd at least be aiming center mass. Glad the good guys went home.

People react differently to the adrenaline dump, police are still prisoners to this biology, to a degree, regardless of the training.

 

[Denny347]

First and foremost, I commend the officers involved for risking their lives and ending a threat with no harm to themselves or innocent bystanders. But man, that was intense to watch, definite eye opener to what the Police deal with. Just curious about protocol from a Police standpoint and I understand every situation is different, but should he have been frisked in the bathroom before moving him outside, or is the idea to get him outside away from the other customers in case something happens (which obviously did). I am by no means any sort of an expert and certainly don't pretend to be, just trying to understand the thought process. Would frisking him in the bathroom and thus discovering the BB gun have changed the outcome and possibly just have the suspect in jail instead of being dead? I realize there is no real answer to that hypothetical question, but I'm just thinking out loud. On a side note, the suspect had a very cold and awkward facial expression and appeared to me that he had a death wish.

I was very surprised he wasn't in cuffs as he was being escorted. But daggum that was a quick reaction by the officers. Not to mention good shooting. He hit exactly where you're supposed to.

Depending on what the cops knew going in, it may or may not have been legal to frisk him. Reasonable suspicion to detain does not automatically legalize a frisk. Shoplifting beer isn't exactly a crime of violence, it is usually a misdemeanor.

Pragmatically, I don't know that I'd want to try to frisk him in a confined bathroom. If things go south in a confined space, the odds of catching your partners rounds go way up.

The cop in the lead is a very cool customer.

What Fargo stated, depending on what was known at the time, frisking and handcuffing could be illegal. There is nothing I would criticize in this incident. Sure there MAY be a few things you might nit-pick but that is just life....nothing ever goes 100% perfect all the time. Take-a-way from this, LEO's perceived threat, decided on a course of action, implemented that course of action. They did well. I would like to point out the most overlooked actor in these incidents that are SO important (dispatchers/control operators). Did you hear how calm and clear the control operator was on the radio responding to the shots fired be the LEO? A good control operator is worth their weight in gold when the SHTF but they are frequently overlooked. It is a special kind of hell to be stuck in a windowless room listening to all hell break loose and do nothing about it.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I thought the new rules disallowed police from shooting people with airsoft guns? The shifting sands confuse me so.

After watching the Sgt.'s video, I see a aouple of shots to the genitals. That'll get you convicted in an INGO court.

Clean shoot. There will be no Problem #2.

"Part of the problem with being a cop is that you become a giant s**t magnet for every a-hole with daddy issues." Clinton A. Smith.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

How do you know she's hitting his legs? She might be, but I don't see any injuries when he flops over. Interesting they have lasers.

Things to ponder:
If he had shot as soon as he pulled (and it was a real gun) is there anyway he would not have had the first shot?
Which officer had a plan and implemented it?
Was the plan effective?
How long did it take the other officer to get into the fight?
What happens to cyclical rates in a sudden violent encounter?

 

[T-DOGG]

What Fargo stated, depending on what was known at the time, frisking and handcuffing could be illegal. There is nothing I would criticize in this incident. Sure there MAY be a few things you might nit-pick but that is just life....nothing ever goes 100% perfect all the time. Take-a-way from this, LEO's perceived threat, decided on a course of action, implemented that course of action. They did well. I would like to point out the most overlooked actor in these incidents that are SO important (dispatchers/control operators). Did you hear how calm and clear the control operator was on the radio responding to the shots fired be the LEO? A good control operator is worth their weight in gold when the SHTF but they are frequently overlooked. It is a special kind of hell to be stuck in a windowless room listening to all hell break loose and do nothing about it.

Repped. Thank you for the response, I value and appreciate your insight, and must say it's nice that we have LEO on this site to help us civilians better understand your side of things.

 

[Tyler-The-Piker]

speculation and random thoughts:
-the BB gun was in case he decided he wanted to go full on "armed robbery".
probably too stupid, broke, or lazy (D. All of the above) to obtain a SNS.
the way he pulled his gun, he had some time to pull the trigger (even while sweeping the female officer)
it looked as though he was sort of showing off his gun with a little bit of bravado...
I'm going to speculate that this dude decided on "suicide by cop" as he was walking out of the restaurant
whether it's because his life was at rock bottom (more than likely) or because he "wasn't goin' back"
...he decided to end his own life by forcing the officers to shoot him.


-quite frankly, I'm extremely impressed by those 2 officers...
no wonder they were cleared quickly and back on the beat

-nearly textbook?

 

[Joniki]

Both officers have been cleared in the incident and have returned to full duty.

I was happy to see this....

 

[THE BIG SITT]

Anyone else notice the hitch in the female officers shot? From her angle, she drew, then the gun goes out of the picture before she brings it back up and shoots. Wonder if she had a malfunction.

 

[jsharmon7]

After reading the story that GP posted, I understand why they didn't handcuff him when they encountered him. It said someone saw him "attempting" to steal a case of beer from a local store. It sounds like more of a suspicious person call that escalated quickly. Good job to the officers involved for handling the situation effectively. It's a shame he had to die, but he made the choice for them.