Making a pistol purchase in another State

[kludge]

Long guns shipped USPS do not need to go overnight.

You can go to gunbroker.com and search for an FFL in your grandparents' area.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Long guns shipped USPS do not need to go overnight.

You can go to gunbroker.com and search for an FFL in your grandparents' area.

Or go straight to the source. BATFEces has a complete list of all FFL holders and type of license available on line.
ATF Online - Statistics - Listing of Federal Firearms Licensees

 

[PGRChaplain]

Give uour Grandpa some ca$h for his Birthday, Have him give you he rifle for yours. When you transport it home it belongs to you. Obey all state laws on transport (WV Oh In)

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Give uour Grandpa some ca$h for his Birthday, Have him give you he rifle for yours. When you transport it home it belongs to you. Obey all state laws on transport (WV Oh In)

It doesn't matter if it's a gift or a purchase. Except in cases where it is bequeathed in a will, interstate acquisition of a firearm must go through an ffl for it to be a legal transfer.

 

[Bert]

if it is loaned to him , for the rest of his life , who the hell is going to know the difference ?

 

[KoopaKGB]

if it is loaned to him , for the rest of his life , who the hell is going to know the difference ?

I agree, you're dealing with your own family blood here. We on INGO can tell you what you should "legally" do. Go thru the FFL. But the judgement call is on you. A rifle from your grandfather!? I'd say just hand it over. Call me a foolish criminal for saying that...okay. But think about it, under what conditions do you think the federal government will try and bust you for this? ATF agents monitoring INGO perhaps? Is your grandpa a gun runner? No? Well you probably don't need to worry about an interaction with the ATF then. You speeding on the highway in WV and being pulled over and the police finding you illegally transporting a rifle from one state to another, yeah thats a better possibility of happening. My advice would be to drive safely then.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I agree, you're dealing with your own family blood here. We on INGO can tell you what you should "legally" do. Go thru the FFL. But the judgement call is on you.

This is the crux of the situation.

Plenty of folks on here have no problem with advising folks break the law.

I am not one of those folks.

-J-

 

[JettaKnight]

anytime when dealing with anyone , regardless of if a relative or not , go through a FFL leagaly .

(FIFY)

You revived a thread to post this?Plus, you really should provide and explanation if you make such a wide sweeping statement that has no basis in law and tends to run contrary to the belief of the vast majority of INGO'ers.

Wait!

Your statement here is contrary to your statement here:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ring_have_the_laws_changed-3.html#post3535557

 

[KoopaKGB]

(FIFY)

You revived a thread to post this?Plus, you really should provide and explanation if you make such a wide sweeping statement that has no basis in law and tends to run contrary to the belief of the vast majority of INGO'ers.

Wait!

Your statement here is contrary to your statement here:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ring_have_the_laws_changed-3.html#post3535557

JettaKnight to be fair, I was the one to dig this thread up, not tec1941.

But that was a funny catch you found "all i use is a BOS and a valid Indiana DL " then here stating "to always use an FFL." Maybe the advice is different then what he practices?

This is the crux of the situation.

Plenty of folks on here have no problem with advising folks break the law.

I am not one of those folks.

-J-

In my defense in that same paragraph I said you (or anyone) may call me a foolish criminal for stating that opinion. On second thought you are right. I am being far too frank on a public forum. I get too used to talking to ppl like I am their friend on here. When in fact I dont really KNOW anybody in here. So I probably shouldnt be so candid and just stick with stating only legal opinions.

 

[ATM]

...Wait!

Your statement here is contrary to your statement here:

Not if you consider that this thread is discussing interstate transfers and the other seemed to reference same state residents.

 

[sloughfoot]

18 U.S.C. § 922(b)(3) makes it unlawful for an FFL to sell or deliver a firearm to a person he or she knows does not reside in the State in which the FFL’s place of business is located.

18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(5) makes it unlawful for an individual to sell or deliver any firearm to any person outside of the state in which the seller resides.

18 USC § 922 - Unlawful acts | LII / Legal Information Institute

Please read this carefully. This is a prohibition on the seller. Not the buyer. I understand that I can't drive to Ohio and sell a pistol. Or ship one out of state to a buyer.

If the buyer conceals the fact that he does not live in the same state as the seller, in a FTF transaction, what law is the buyer violating?

I have asked this question in several different ways in different threads and have yet to get an answer.

I am not advocating any illegal behavior, but if someone shows up in my driveway to buy a pistol that I have advertised for sale, where is it written that I MUST verify where the buyer lives? I am not a FFL and I am delivering the pistol within my own home State, in my driveway....

 

[KoopaKGB]

Please read this carefully. This is a prohibition on the seller. Not the buyer. I understand that I can't drive to Ohio and sell a pistol. Or ship one out of state to a buyer.

If the buyer conceals the fact that he does not live in the same state as the seller, in a FTF transaction, what law is the buyer violating?

I have asked this question in several different ways in different threads and have yet to get an answer.

I am not advocating any illegal behavior, but if someone shows up in my driveway to buy a pistol that I have advertised for sale, where is it written that I MUST verify where the buyer lives? I am not a FFL and I am delivering the pistol within my own home State, in my driveway....

Its not written anywhere. Its not illegal on your part as a seller because the person has not given you any cause to think he was from out of state. Now if he said "I just drove from so and so" then yes he just told you hes illegally buying the gun. Maybe if his license plate was a different state that might pursuade a judge or jury that you KNEW he wasnt a resident and sold it to him anyway. You may ask him for ID but that is not required by law. Its been brought up in other threads too that folks can and will create false ID's or false little pink slips and I myself would be none the wiser when checking them out.

On a related note. I once was selling a handgun in Evansville and was going to sell a cheap gun (imported Makarov for like 180 bucks) to a guy, then he flat out told me that he couldn't pass a background check. I never even asked anything like that but after he told me this I called the deal off and he asked me why I had called it off.

 

[Delmar]

On a related note. I once was selling a handgun in Evansville and was going to sell a cheap gun (imported Makarov for like 180 bucks) to a guy, then he flat out told me that he couldn't pass a background check. I never even asked anything like that but after he told me this I called the deal off and he asked me why I had called it off.

That guy was either a complete idiot, or involved in a sting operation. My money is on idiot!

 

[ATM]

Please read this carefully. This is a prohibition on the seller. Not the buyer. I understand that I can't drive to Ohio and sell a pistol. Or ship one out of state to a buyer.

If the buyer conceals the fact that he does not live in the same state as the seller, in a FTF transaction, what law is the buyer violating?

I have asked this question in several different ways in different threads and have yet to get an answer.

Here's the answer:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

(a) It shall be unlawful—
...
(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State...

I am not advocating any illegal behavior, but if someone shows up in my driveway to buy a pistol that I have advertised for sale, where is it written that I MUST verify where the buyer lives?....

It's not. You would not need to verify unless you know or had reasonable cause to believe they do not reside in the same state as you.

 

[marv]

Here's my solution and I am open to correction. IF seller gets an FFL to go along with the deal and IF buyer gets a letter from his FFL appointing buyer his courier, buyer can travel to out of state seller, make deal and pay for gun. Seller and buyer take gun to seller's FFL who does his thing and hands gun to buyer to deliver to his FFL.

 

[sloughfoot]

Thanks for the info ATM.

The statute does not prohibit an individual from going to another state and doing a FTF with a non-FFL. It just prohibits that person from bringing that firearm back to his home state.

It also means that if a person moves to another state, he cannot bring his firearms with him because he purchased them outside the new state of residence.

It clearly outlines that firearms that are bequeathed can be taken back to the home state as long as the person to whom the firearm is bequeathed, is legal to own said firearm. So, you can't buy a firearm from your Dad in another state, but he can bequeath it to you in his will and you are OK.

This is the most EFFED up piece of legislation I have have ever read.

I will be studying it further from to see how it impacts private citizens. And more importantly, how it can be used against private citizens. This stateline business is especially disturbing. I am trying to digest why the crossing of statelines is important to the creators of this law.

FFL's and other commercial entities have their own rules to follow within this law. I am not concerned with their rules at this time.

 

[Delmar]

...It also means that if a person moves to another state, he cannot bring his firearms with him because he purchased them outside the new state of residence...

No I am fairly certain this is not correct. All you would have to do is verify that you bought the gun legally since you were a resident of the state at the time of purchase.

edit: actually any LEA trying to convict you of a crime would need to prove you were not a resident of that state at the time of purchase.

 

[Delmar]

...This is the most EFFED up piece of legislation I have have ever read...

... This stateline business is especially disturbing. I am trying to digest why the crossing of statelines is important to the creators of this law...

You won't find a good reason. All gun laws are an attempt to limit your God given rights as affirmed by the Constitution and, as so, tend to be arbitrary in nature.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

This is the most EFFED up

Yep.

And it maybe only stops a small % of folks. Most are either A) totally ignorant, or B) willfully ignoring.

Every year (maybe 2x) there's a big "flea market" / gun show at Wilshire, OH. Just a stone's throw from Decatur, IN.

Almost every seller at the show is a private seller.

I know that plenty of things make it back to IN from OH. And while I personally wouldn't do it, I have a hard time condemning someone for not following an unconstitutional law based on imaginary lines.

 

[ATM]

...This is the most EFFED up piece of legislation I have have ever read.

Agreed, just like most legislation.

...I am trying to digest why the crossing of statelines is important to the creators of this law.

It provides another feeble excuse to stake a federal claim in the regulation and control game - the well-abused Interstate Commerce Clause.