M4s in Afghanistan

[miguel]

Just saw this article about alleged problems with some of the weapons our troops are using in Afghanistan. I'd assume if true, they'd apply to any theater we are engaged in?

I'm not a veteran, nor a weapons expert, but I'd like to hear any comments on these reports, especially from those of you who may have been over there recently.

[FONT=Verdana,Sans-serif]My Way News - Weapons failed US troops during Afghan firefight
[/FONT]

 

[Cwood]

Hmmm too hot after 12 mags?

I saw a M16 run more then 12 mags in 30 mins at NFA day and not have any problem other then a very hot suppressor.

 

[tyler34]

Hmmm too hot after 12 mags?

I saw a M16 run more then 12 mags in 30 mins at NFA day and not have any problem other then a very hot suppressor.

I second that emotion. it honestly made me think about AR's in a different light after that day.

 

[esrice]

it honestly made me think about AR's in a different light after that day.

And more specifically, BCM 11.5" uppers!

 

[wally05]

We don't know the maintenance record of the weapons, how old they were, etc. You have to understand, the military is making these guys carry rifles that have been used to death. My friends that received new m4s overseas haven't had any problems.

 

[Dryden]

The M-249 also jammed??? With so many weapons "overheating" and barrels turning "white hot", I've got to question the maintenance of these firearms. Did someone butter them up with Mazzola Corn oil?

 

[22lr]

When your using weapons that have been used in one way or another for decades you are going to have problems.

 

[jbhummer2]

When I was spose to go to Iraq some of the weapons that they were issuing were so badly maitained that it wouldnt surprise me that they were having problems.

 

[Gaudard]

To keep the firearms maintained they need plenty of oil, right?

Oil and dirt, sand, dust equals bad, right?

Sounds like a catch 22 to me.

 

[Agent 007]

.

 

[dtkw]

Lack of proper maintaining, could be a big issue in the sandy environment. When I was in Desert Storm, my M16 didn't have any problem firing at the Republican Guards. The barrel could get really hot, but never fail to fire at full auto. However, I didn't have to keep pulling the trigger during the fight.

 

[Indecision]

I'm in Afghanistan typing this and here's my take.

The M4s were improperly maintained. Regular Army units do not get full auto M4s, and we don't ever use them on 3rnd burst. We are trained to do controlled pairs, "double taps" if you will. The dust over here is bad, so we keep our weapons pretty dry or they jam up pretty quick. If the SHTF, you have to pull out a bottle of clp and lubricate or it will Jam. This sounds counter productive, but with a lot of oil on them they collect so much dust so quickly you would have to field strip it at the beginning of the tic. The M4 properly when maintened is reliable.

As for M249 SAWs. They are the MOST finicky weapon in the US arsenal. Period. If they are not meticulously maintained, and well lubricated will jam.

 

[CombatVet]

I'm in Afghanistan typing this and here's my take.

The M4s were improperly maintained. Regular Army units do not get full auto M4s, and we don't ever use them on 3rnd burst. We are trained to do controlled pairs, "double taps" if you will. The dust over here is bad, so we keep our weapons pretty dry or they jam up pretty quick. If the SHTF, you have to pull out a bottle of clp and lubricate or it will Jam. This sounds counter productive, but with a lot of oil on them they collect so much dust so quickly you would have to field strip it at the beginning of the tic. The M4 properly when maintened is reliable.

As for M249 SAWs. They are the MOST finicky weapon in the US arsenal. Period. If they are not meticulously maintained, and well lubricated will jam.

You hit the nail on the Faking head! When I was there our M-4's had to be cleaned constantly. The talcum powder like sand would always get in the weapon and gum it up. No matter how well the weapon was closed up to keep dust/sand out it still got in there. We used this lubricant that was thick and white. I can't remember what it was called. It helped a little bit. It honestly reminded me of Cristco cooking grease.

As for the SAW's I've seen people have to swap out barrels after 150 rounds because the barrel was drooped so bad that you couldn't use the sights on it.

We had a sqaud that opted to use the old M1A1's because they didn't jam as bad in the desert.

As far as what Soldiers need over there I don't know. AK's never jammed. Didn't matter if it was old as hell or new. Maybe an American AK or something.

 

[Sasquatchhunter]

they should have dropped the M16 platform after Vietnam. I have never been impressed with AR platforms, especially after seeing too many piston problems after not that many rounds. I dont even like the round they use. I would like to see them replace the M16s with something .308. just my .02

 

[jblomenberg16]

they should have dropped the M16 platform after Vietnam. I have never been impressed with AR platforms, especially after seeing too many piston problems after not that many rounds. I dont even like the round they use. I would like to see them replace the M16s with something .308. just my .02

Remember that part of the reason the M16 platform was created was because of what we'd learned in WWII and Korea about combat engagements, and how much a soldier can lug. The M16 more or less replaced the M1 Garand (30-06) and M14 (.308).

A typical soldier can haul around a much higher quantity of 5.56 Nato ammunition than 7.62 Nato due to the weight difference. In many cases, it appears that Quantity rather than Quality is what is needed in these engagements. When precision or longer range is needed there are the designated marksman with the .308 in the M14.

With that said, I think some of the new rounds being developed in between the 5.56 and 7.62, such as the 6.8 do show some promise. A bit larger bullet with increased pennetration cabability against light armor and the like, but still relatively small and light, allowing for increased battle load out.

This of course is my civilian view of the situation, and there is likely much more complex details behind it.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

So, with the M4, is this a discipline problem, or design, or what?

12 mags? 28 times 12 = 336 rounds in a couple of minutes. Yeah, I can see problems, the M4 is not water cooled. I've seen AKs burst into flame on full auto in less than that.

If the HK50/G36, ACR, or whatever is better, let's get it to our boys. Yesterday.

Problems with the M249 in the crap? Yeah, but we've known that since the early '80s.

Big Army wouldn't give our guys the Mini SS-77 because of politics but now that the RSA has undergone a regime change it is senseless to keep the 249 and not go with the Mini SS-77 (which was designed to function in the crap like Afghanistan).

 

[dtkw]

Perhaps our gov should provide our troops a newer better weapons instead of some 40 years old designs. One I could think of is the HK416 which would never overheat and can deal with sand and mud without problem.

 

[alan robert]

Ok, who wants a hug? This post looks like AR15.com.

 

[redneckmedic]

Ok, who wants a hug? This post looks like AR15.com.

I'll take one!

 

[jblomenberg16]

Hold on....


IBTL, Pics or it didn't happen, F-u AROK, This wouldn't happen with a Colt (wait, they probably are Colts).

There, now that feels more like ARFCOM.